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Technical Used Roller Cam knowledge needed please.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by autoworldcorp2000, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. Purchased several roller cams and lifter sets Some are mismatched but of the SAME series rollers during the past 5 years and am ready to use these in a street rod engine for Sunday cruising around our local area. These came from stock car used equipment auctions. Some of these I was told at time of auction were new, never used. ?????
    But that was what was told. I don't always believe it but one takes a chance unless the budget has lots of money! Being a retired Vocational instructor and living daily lives that is not possible. Anyway, I need real advice from those in the know and not Wild ass guesses. I was an engineer in industry for 9 years in foundries, Machine shops, and fabrication. Raced for 18 years PART time only!!!!! Building cars and engines (used great machine shops in the day too). So I am not just some hobbyist here with an interest that is very not practical.
    I know what the new cam mfg'rs would say too.
    Anyway I am searching for practical advise from those who've dun it!
    For years I used USED flat tappet cams with great success! 60's thru the 80's. Long time ago. I still have a few of those to use now too but this is about the roller type.
    My secret was in those days to mic all of the intake lobes and then all of the exhaust lobes. If they were within .001" then I used that cam. If not it went into the scrap bin.
    Original;l I used Lithium grease and coated the cam and the lifters upon assy. I have even used used lifters if I knew their history. Dissassembly each clean and lube clean any dark deposits and soak them in regular nondetergent oil. Pump them a few times dry them off and lube the exterior. Later on I found Break in cam grease from new cams I was installing from the mjr, cam mfgrs. But in the early 60's With the old Duntov cams and such and being a poor young man I did this with several times success. ( I have lost 4 cam/ lifter failures) with many miles on their clocks (intown and weekend drag racing after break in. Two lost cranks from a lifter or two going bad. In those engines I did not install weak springs during my first 500 miles either. I made an air chuck tool to insert into the cylinder and another to loosen the springs while on the head. I am NOT trying to brag just explaining how it was done. It worked for me.
    Now with the ZDDP Zinc gone in the oils today plus I will be breaking in these new engines soon. I need to know What worked with your roller cams that were used???
    I have a bucket FULL of roller lifters out of Small Block Chevrolets late models (TPI and similar) I plan to do just like I did with the other old hyd lifters that I used. Another note: I DO use a gram scale to weigh the lifters. Any that are seriously over weight are not used. 1-2 grams. I am not winding my engines over 6 or 7 grand. Well after miles and oil changes right after break in. NO, I don't do it very many times on the engines. In 18 years of drag racing (old school) on the strip in a full quarter situation I have only purchased 4 new camsafts!!!!!
    No I am not full of BULL either.
    I AM unexperienced with Roller Cams though. Reusing them!!!
    I know what MOST will try to tell me.... I want to know HOW to USE them. From experienced fellas.
    I also build and drive old USED Model A and T Ford engines. I have never lost any of those either. New pistons, balancing done, new valves, sometimes new lifters, new cam and rod bearing pours. But used parts that if they check out are reused. Sometimes one part fails and I have to pull the engine (hate that) and clean everything and replace the bad part.
    I am sure I will have to run stock springs on my valves prior to installing the HD springs I own. I have many sets of those too. I DO use a spring tester!
     
  2. Used lifters would have to pass the rocking test by placing two of each of the together on their impact surface. They HAD to rock from the radius on that surface or into the trash bin for recycle they went.
    I followed the std procedures. Even testing the open and closed spring rates. Prelubed ALL of my builds prior to start up. FUNNY... years ago I just always just let the idle for around one half hour. Never seemed to cause me any problems then either!!! ?????????
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    Just wondering...is there a question in there somewhere?
     
    X38, 34toddster, 73RR and 1 other person like this.
  4. verno30
    Joined: Aug 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,148

    verno30
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is what I have done:

    Perform a visual inspection on the cam and rollers for excessive wear, bad rollers, etc.

    Lube the camshaft liberally and install.

    Soak the roller lifters in oil for 24 hours turning and spinning the rollers on occasion.

    Install.

    Run the engine with break-in oil.
     

  5. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,444

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Well I think he wants a run down on how to use used roller lifters on used roller cams like he used everything else that was used?o_O
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    Clean, inspect, lubricate, use. They don't have issues with wearing in like flat tappets. But the rollers will have problems if you have a lot of valve spring, and put a lot of miles on them...my drag week buddies know all about that.
     
  7. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,639

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I'm curious how many used cams you found with 16 lobes all within .001" ? ... I would think from the factory new +/- .002 would be pretty darn good for what it's doing
     
  8. We used to use the used original stock roller lifters when we installed a new performance cam on our Harleys back in the day. Never used any special preparation other than pre-oiling everything. We didn't even know about assembly lube or ZDDP. Never had a roller or cam failure. We did use Harley 105 oil though. My 2 cents.
     
  9. Thanks guys this IS what I am looking for!!!
    Jim F. (I will NOT ask where you got that nick name!!!!! ????
    I hope it does look like a question in there someplace!!
    BUT ya gotta READ the whole thing I think.
    LOL U gotta lot of nice cars on the web page!!!
    >>>>>>>
    A am stupid when it comes to having any experience with roller cams! Never could afford them in my day! I was running flat tappet up to 7 and an occasional 8000 rpm. I crap you NOT. Once in a while at Bradenton Raceway. Those who know me there then will attest to me doing this. 3 of those cams were used. A couple were new. Mostly when I missed a shift. But I have seen that on a few of my cams in first and second gears. Funny how a 34 Ford coupe weighing in at just under 2000 lbs. The Duce gasser too. Also with several other cars I raced there. Altered and gas classes pretty much,
    WILL do that. Now if I blew a lot of engines I'd not have used those cams. JZ balanced my bulds too then. (ZORIAN) including some of my T's. LOL but true.
    >>>>>>>>
    I always wanted a roller so I could feel like the big boys! Plus today I have been picking them up at auctions for under a 100$ bill. Several Bullet billets. I am calling them for help too if they will FOOL with me? Got an Isky BBC the other day. Unused but ?????? And for WHAT combination?
    OH, So much to learn before I stab one of those into one of my builds!!!!
    >>>>>>>>
    Reason why I was worrying was partly as the rollers are used and the cams are used AND that the rollers were on other cams. I just bought a full set of Crower lifters for $80.00 yesterday. They are used but seem nice. I also noticed that one of those lifters on each set looks weird! It is offset where the pushrod goes on one lifter of each set. 8 sets!
    >>>>>>>
    Hey 32!
    I use to put them in our lathe at school and rotate them with the dial indicator. Maybe it wasnt JUST .001" but it was very close.... always!!!! Or I did not use or REALLY buy it from someone. I really did throw a bunch away. Are you sure about the .004"????? I will be talking to Bullet tomorrow I hope. And I'll ask about that. On the Model T cams I was in the .004-5" range but they only turn about 2600 rpms. I did not race any of those cars. I just drove them in parades. See my photo albums on the HAMB. And there are only 1/3 or less of my cars I have built on there. Or less.
    Also I used calipers from heel to toe measurements. All intakes then all exh. together. I do not fool around with uneven lobes. Except on the old regrinds on Flatheads. They could varied a little back then in the 60's. On todays stuff not so I am thinking. (I got a lot to learn here on this subject). AND I AM listening!
     
  10. This is for 32 as it gets off of the subject here.
    Hey 32, In my shop I have around a dozen (maybe 11??? Muncies there. I'll keep my eyes open for ya. I do not know which muncy or what years will go in which cars yet, So I can't let any of mine go yet. I may have to rebuild many of mine. ?????? I am sure they will need rebuilding and unmixing of the cases for correct P/N matching too. Thru the years cases were thrown together during a rebuild so P/N matching will be needed on mine I am sure.
     
  11. I agree with all of the above. Coat the cam lobes and lifters with a good cam lube. What heads are these being used with? Some of the bigger springs (~ 1.437 diameter) have very high spring pressures.
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,945

    squirrel
    Member

    offset lifters...yeah, they make them. Are your intake ports too wide? move the pushrod aside, and it'll fit!

    offset.jpg


    btw there's an internet phrase, tldr. It means "too long, didn't read". If you want to know about something, you might see if you can ask your question with just enough background so the question makes sense. We all know that used flat tappet lifters are picky, and you can make them work if you're careful. No need to write a page about it :)
     
    Boyd Wylie, 73RR and badshifter like this.
  13. Jim Forbs!!!!
    Thanks for your reply!
    I was a teacher Jim in Tampa Florida. Know Don Garlits well. Wonderful guy. Taught me a lot!!!! I use to take my students to state competitions. We won state a few times beating out all of the other BIG schools!!!!! We did! All because I try and give as much info as necessary. And then I back it up.
    I am NOT the smartest guy on the block! But I try and listen to those who ARE out there doing it in real life which I could not afford on teacher's pay!!! But when I did get out there I did well. All because of listening to the RIGHT guys. There are LOTS of armchair guys and know-it-alls who can get u n trouble with their latent knowledge. Many of the REAL guys all started out like I did or HAD to. But they graduated and went on to bigger stuff usually. They were the guys who were there. I was only sometimes. Usually I was working on other guys stuff and not one of the real guys. Yeah I was in their background watching and listening. Doing it on my own and with students. So being that I am not the smartest guy on the block I have to rely on what you REAL guys tell me. I respect that information soooo much!
    I NEED to know WHAT works not the perfect situations that one reads about in the HOT ROD and STREET RODDER magazines. Or by calling up a Cam Mfgr. And NO I do not want to blow any motors.
    Jim I have maybe 15 0r 16 complete small blocks. A few that John Zorian machined for me in the 80's. Others were done by other competent machine shops ALL defunct now and the owners have gone onto other interests or retirement. I have several heads to pick from from Brodix thru the iron dbl HUMP heads (300 hp jobs used on even Corvette FI engines) to stock LT1 and even a few of the experimental GM limited production runs for Corvettes in the 70's in house at the shop. A pair of other aluminum heads used on fast stock cars that blew too. Some with bent valves still in them.So as to what heads I am going to use.... Whichever seem like the best ones for all of the variables that I can match up to work. To show how stupid I am I had never seen any offset rollers!!!!! Prior to opening up the box after paying for what I had bid and won. Jim I am an old man. I have even the flatheads from a long time ago. I am praying that I am able to get these back together and in my 35 cars here. I do not want to be the fella who dies and everyone converges on the wife trying to pick my bones!!!!!! I am still kickin' and want desperately to get my stuff together. No I do not need anyone to BUILD anything. I just need correct information to do the job. That is why we are ALL here I think! On the HAMB. I need to pay up dues as I am now getting ready to build cars. the past 12 years I have had to rebuild all of my machinery, Toolboxes, sort tools, finish my facilities inside and out. Build a sea wall to keep from flooding my shop and ruining my stuff.
    Sorry if I explain too much detail but when building cars from the ground up one has to think this way. Especially if I AM the one doing all of the work.
    I apologize to you ALL if I am giving out too much info. TMI.
    I seem to never have enough of that when I am building cars as I have done for all of my life. Again I am NOT the smartest person on the block. And JIM thanks for your suggestions, photos and all as I am not the best at sending stuff out and doing all of this computer stuff!!!!
    I appreciate your help and I do try to keep it down.
    Again sorry to have worn you brothers out!
     

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  14. i grew up with the slogan "all cars run on used parts". knowing which ones you don't want to reuse is the trick.
    my uncle [R.I.P.] almost never bought any thing new, he built and fixed lots of stuff, he was successful on the race track with a car built from other teams castoffs [pissed them off]. i think the secret was he wasn't afraid of trying them and did not mind replacing stuff it it failed.
    my point? do it and report back.
     
  15. Chucks pictures of original old driveway.jpg This is what has kept me busy on retirement from building any cars yet!!! Flood at night.jpg See I downloaded the wrong file!
     

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  16. Tb and the 1/3rd you got it right!!!! Only those who have been there will understand!
    It is possible but it takes a lot of INFORMATION to get the combinations right! Especially today with all of the stuff out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It is SOOOOOO much harder today then back when most of us were the young bucks. There just wasn't that MUCH stuff! AND to be all truthfu,l there is more info out there but it is hard to sift thru and extrapolate what will work and in your situations. I am lucky I guess to have been out there and saving most of my stuff thru the years. When you raced those cars back when we did we often pulled the engines out and installed our BAD BOY engine!!!!!!!!! I still have many of those as well as the ashes of some of those BB engines. You install a regular engine when trading off the car for a new one at a car dealership. I got in trouble once when I traded in my 68 SS 396. I installed a 327 in it. The dealer called cussing up a storm. The car was a year old and they gave me only 1200.00 for that car. they were worth 2500 then but I wanted the new 70 Corvette I pre bought and had to wait w/o any car for 5 months to get it. It was 2800.00 new. I still have original 409's 348's a few Dodge motors (no 426's) many bbc 396 thru LS6 and one original L88 from my 69 Corvette. I raced Sportsman and gas Corvettes in the day when I did go. About 7 flatheads all machined and some are assembled ready for one of my hot rods. 13 T engines 4 A's "and a partridge in a pair of trees" I think it goes. (being silly there).
    So, JIM, yes, I have got to know where to put my camshafts (besides someone telling me to bend over!!!) But I need to answer some questions first. Why the roller offset on only one side?
     
  17. Roller offset is on the top of the roller lifter where the push rod goes
     
  18. Thanks Jim. My wife tells me the same thing! BUT I AM glad you read mine! I still do not know what to do with these roller lifters? Looks like I have to increase the lifter bore diameter to .904. UGH but can do! Which heads to have or how to use these with Dart Aluminum heads? I have a set of those off of a stock car. Why the offset on only one side? I saw your attached info. It stated as I thought that the Small block chevy used only centered rollers! So do I have to find a few to replace the offset ones or can they still be used???? W/O damaging my valve train???
     
  19. They are Crower 66292X903E if the box is for those lifters????
     

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