hi all, there is a gentleman near me selling a 39 stude commander coupe. its a def project. no driveline and he has installed a jaguar front end. Wondering if anyone has any insight into this combo and if trying to get a driveline in there with that setup is asking for a lifetime of headaches. he's had it for years and done nothing with it and we all know how that goes. it's a cheap entry cost for a beautifully styled car, but that could balloon way out of control. thanks for any insight - jason
Assuming the Jag frontend is from an XJ series, that is quite popular setup. The Jag does have a rear mounted rack and pinion, but unless the Studie has a short engine compartment, and I do not think it does, having been an inline six cylinder, it should not pose any problem for a rear sump engine install. It is certainly possible you will have to change the springs, depending on the engine you choose and final weight of the front end, but that is common with swapped suspensions. The only other consideration that comes to mind is the condition of the suspension bushings, etc. There are recent threads on here about the process of rebuilding Jag frontends, as well as several install threads that can provide additional insight. Ray
Pretty much what Ray said above on the Jag. front suspension. Body parts are mostly obtainable trough the Studebaker, pipeline if you will. Get into the Studebaker Drivers Club web site for any questions on body and frame parts, questions. Note that the early Stude frames were made of light weight (fairly thin) steel into the closed "hat" section design. Saying this in case you're planning a 620 inch Chevy...the frame wont take the torque but once or twice..! Your normal small block Chevy, Chrysler, Ford is fine unless, again, over about 700hp is intended. I've got a friend here in SoCal starting to build his 39 coupe also. Putting a hot rod Stude engine it this one. Mike
How tough would it be to put in a newer front clip, such as 68 - 74 Nova? The ones with drum brakes are slightly narrower than with discs. These work well under 41 - 48 Chevys. Not sure how 39 Studes, and 1940's Chevys compare, though. Or.......Take out the Jag suspension, put in a straight axel and build a period correct drag car, if you're into that?
The Jag will work a hell of a lot better than the clunky Nova front ends in that chassis This is a photo I saved of a guy's AD Chevy frame with a Jag XJ front end under it. Saved for reference for my truck. Here is my early 80's XJS front end with most of the scabs cleaned off it. Here it is in comparison to the AD front axle. Mount surface to mount 59-1/2 which might be a tad wide for the Studebaker unless you run wheels that make it work. There is a good chance that the Studebaker in question has an XKE front end from the 60's stuck under it too as those were the hot lick swap in the 70's and I think Kugle still sells stuff for them..
XKE IFS were torsion bars and XK6/XKS are coils. IIRC Also look into the XK rear, it make an awesome/affordable package. There is a Jag swap IFS/IRS Group here on the HAMB.
That's my 52 GMC frame in-process after welding the Jag IFS into it. I run a SBC and the sump fits fine. I also used the Jag IRS in the same truck, why not use as much as possible from the $500 donor Jag? Buolt he truck for my wife and the Jag suspension is working out well. The GMC is running now and it drives great. Smooth ride at nice height and is like a sports car handling vs most vehicles. The brakes are fantastic. The only issue with the Jag IFS is as stated, be careful of the width. If you look at stock Jag wheels they have a lot of inside offset. Not as much as fwd wheels, but more than a stock Chevy wheel. Which BTW the Jag bolt pattern is 5x4.75, same as Chevy and GM midsize. Uses 1/2 inch studs like Ford. Also the hub diam on the Jag is a bit bigger than GM uses, so you can't use stock steel wheels without some machining of the hub or wheel. Most aftermarket wheels will fit over the hub. Here is a pic sitting on ground, still an in-process build pic, but you can see how it sits:
I'd use the Jag front over the Chevy stuff any day of the week. They're no more expensive to rebuild if needed (check with jaguarspecialties.com for reasonably-priced quality aftermarket parts), and have excellent handling/ride/brakes. You will likely have to replace the front springs (Jag motors are heavy; only they could build an all-aluminum 326 ci V12 that weighs 200 lbs more than a iron big-block Chevy, and the sixes aren't much lighter... LOL!). Jags have their issues, but the suspension isn't one of them....
Here's my '40 Commander...'39 and '40 are almost identical, save for grille, headlights, taillights, dash and hood trim. The engine compartment is H-U-G-E, you could put a big block Chevy or a Hemi in there and still have room for a blower AND close the hood. A sub-frame would go in without any problems IF you use an early sub...the later (after '72) are too wide...but since you've got the Jag, I'd stay with it...I literally bolted on a '57 Chevy rear-end in mine-pads were in the correct spot for the leaf springs and used a Nova driveshaft. In 1977, I used a Corvair front suspension with heavier Monza springs, along with a Pinto rack and pinion and NEVER once had a problem with it, other than the turning radius. Mustang II's weren't even considered at that time. My car was driven all over the United States for over 25 years...oh yeah, ran a 400" small block, Edelbrock 4 bbl and a T-400 tranny... If you need any questions answered about the Stude, or yours, PM me... R-
thank you all, I just heard from the seller. The floors are gone and this is def in the "major project category". He's asking about 3500$ for the car, some aftermarket Tq Thrust wheels, a supposedly rebuilt C4, an engine from a 92 vette that was fuel injected and needs some work to get the intake or heads off (his words) to get the new intake and carb mounted, has a jag rear suspension and a kit to mount it (said the kit was $750). a few misc bits, much of it not in great shape but i'm looking for more of a driver than a resto. i'm not afraid of work and i have a enough friends and tools to make some floors, etc. I know nada about the value of these things so i don't want to insult anyone or be taken for the proverbial ride. with sight unseen what do you think is a fair price. i know thats a pandora's box but for someone like me i cant tell at all what that price could be. there is no title though i have ways of getting one through NH.
That price is not way out of line, but may be too high. C4 is a Ford trans, and that's a Chevy motor. Not sure what's going on there. Jag suspension front and rear makes a nice driver. How much rust work do you want to tackle? What about frame rust?
IF you're looking for a "more of a driver", then pass this one up. The trans is worthless if you've got a Chevy engine (won't bolt up)...and it sounds like the Chevy engine isn't much better ( especially IF he can't "get the intake or heads off "). Basically it reads like he has no idea how to build a street rod and just started collecting parts hoping it'd all fit together. To me. it wouldn't be worth $3500 and I'd offer $2000 to $2500...no more if you really want a two-five year project. You're going to put in a lot of long hours in on the car and a lot of cash-if you do all the work yourself (which you won't cuz you said you have friends), you're still going to put in over $10,000-$15,000 in the car-not including paint or bodywork. An orphan car like a Stude won't bring that much more money if you decide to sell it after it's finished, IF you get that far. I'd pass and go find a driver for a lot less work and hassle...just MHO. R-
Possibly the transmission is from a 'C4' Corvette, as is the engine according to the info provided. C4's were '84 thru '96 model years. Worth clarifying at the very least. Ray
I think he means C4 corvette, should go behind the 4 cam ZR1, if that is the '92 vette engine that comes with the car. The '39 Stude is a nice looking car, I like them better then the '40 personally although Jetter's '40 could cause me to rethink that. With the parts described end of the day one would have a modern street rod when it was finished. nothing wrong with that if that is what one is after. Price wise it doesn't sound bad, it would be a little too stiff for me considering what part of it I would keep and what part of it I would toss but the price doesn't sound too bad.
PnB...the '39 and '40 Stude Commander coops were almost identical...perhaps you're thinking of the '39 Champion coop, the ones drag racers used in the gas classes...Stude built two different models back then...The Commander series which were bigger with a longer wheelbase and the Champion series which were smaller and lighter...!!! Think...??? R-
I'll bet you are correct as usual. Seems like the one I am thinking of was like a super plain business type of a coupe. I knew a kid ( older kid when I was in high school) that had a '39 with a 283 FI in it. I always liked it and it seemed to be less high end than yours. Maybe high end is not correct, not talking paint here. You understand me right? BTW I would not have chosen the colors that you used on your coupe and when I see them they are just right. If I ever get rich enough to actually buy paint from the paint store I am going to call you for a consult.
Im going MMII in mine, but having to have a crossmember made as the frame is super narrow, but the engine compartment is huge!
and for what its worth, if it does not have ALL the headlight stuff, its hard to come up with! There is no aftermarket support for this "Orphan" car.. but they sure look good! Im going with a tall deck Desoto hemi and a 700R4 trans, S-10 rearend and the MMII front end. I got super lucky and cleaned Roger out of his leftover parts
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hemi-powered-1939-studebaker.976382/ for the last batch of photos... not much progress, other than speding money on parts... the Hemi is ready to go in and I have all the front end stuff and air ride ready to go in.. its back to work in a couple weeks!
If you haven't already, join the Studebaker Driver's Club, and get on their forum. Your be surprised what parts you can come up with when you get with the right people.
And for loads of parts (new, repopped, NOS, and used) - plus lots of good info, check the Studebaker Vendors page.
Commander was Studebaker's medium price model at the time. Larger and nicer than the much more common Champion. The Champion was smaller than a Ford and had a 164 cu in 78HP engine. Commander was more like a Mercury or Pontiac with a 226 cu in 90HP engine. Top of the line was the President 8. Champions were popular drag cars and hot rods because they were smaller and lighter than a Ford or Chev.
The engine bay is nice and wide but not long. Was going to drop a 4.0 Jeep 6 cyl. in my '39 Coupe Express. Way too long. SBC was like a bar of soap in the tub of my '40 Commander.
Did the Turbo 350 have C4 cast on the top of the bell housing?? Maybe the owner is getting a bit mixed up..
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