So long story not so short, I recently bought a 64 biscayne w a 454. Had a lot of chatter, 1 broken pushrod, a few slightly bent pushrods. Replaced all lifters, pushrods, and rockers. Put it all back together with fresh gaskets. Got motor to tdc (had to go off visual of cyl 1 valves being closed to confirm tdc compression since I'm not able to spin crank and hold finger over #1 cylinder by myself) installed hei dizzy aiming to cylinder 1, install cap wires blah blah blah. Crank it up and requires Some peddling to keep it running. Couldn't get it to idle below 1100 ish rpm without dying. Whatever, it's running, that's a start. throw timing light on it, and it's so far retarded that I'm seeing a part of the tape 6 in away from the actual reading areas on tape. Ok, so I'm thinking I'm 180 out on Dizzy. Back to tdc so rotor n #1 on cap line up, crank the crank around 1 more time back to tdc, lift, drop and align dizzy and all I get is backfiring through carb and exhaust. Tried rotating both ways bit by bit and can't get it fired up, only backfires. Any suggestions, advice, pointers? When I had it running I pulled valve covers to be sure all valves open/close which they do. I really don't think I messed up installing lifters/rockers/pushrods, triple checked my work when intake was off. Spent the last two days trying to figure out what I'm missing and no luck. Thanks in advance
Screw the marks to start with. Buy yourself a remote starter button or have a friend (worse case your wife) operate the Key. Stick your finger in #1 plug hole with all 7 other plugs in place. Bump Bump Bump till it pops compression past your finger. Stop and install the rotor pointing at #1 on your cap. To Hell with marks on balancer. Providing your fireing order is correct it should run well enough to bump dist to get it to idle. You are aware that some performance Cams have a non stock fireing order right? To determin that if you still have a issue is to remove both valve covers and hand rotate the motor and watch the rockers. Another issue with idle problem can be a vaccume leak but that shouldn't cause bent push rods. The Wizzard
Not aware aftermarket cams would have different firing order. No buddy/wife to help bump starter, hence why I've set dizzy both ways. Still have drivers valve cover off, will pop passenger and watch intake valves to verify firing order.
A remote starter switch is your friend like stated above.....but tell me about a 454 in a 64 Biscayne. I didn't think they came out until the early seventies. You sure it's not a 427????
Did you buy it this way?...if it had a bent pushrod?....are the timing gears installed correctly?....not a tooth off?... I didn't see if there where problems before you started. I'll keep an eye on your post...
I'd be looking for a timing chain that jumped. First time one tooth, now who knows. Bent and broken pushrods tell you something.
My guess is you were close the first time, probably 20 degrees retarded, or thereabouts. Since you haven't had much luck with doing it like you're supposed to, you might as well try Wizzard's method, you might be able to get it running again, then you can adjust the timing as needed so it runs ok, then go from there. I like to get the #1 rockers to both be just barely moving as I move the crank back and forth, that means you're at #1 firing position, without the fun of having it suck your finger into the plug hole, or whatever else might happen. and like they said, what caused this? had the car sat for a long time?
Use a vacuum gauge connected to a constant source of manifold vacuum to set the ignition timing. Get it at least idling like you had before. Advance distributor for highest steady vacuum reading, with a stock cam and healthy engine at sea level, this will be 17" to 20". Back off slightly about .5" to 1" from there to account for crappy gas. Check for ping or, pre-detonation and back off a little more if necessary.
Flatford39 not original motor in car, it's a mark 4 454. 100% positive it's a 454. Groundpounder bought it running and driving and extremely noisy. Popped valve covers off shortly after I bought it and discovered tweaked pushrods. When I had it apart I checked timing chain and sprockets. Very minimal slack in chain, dots lined up.
If it sat for a while and the gas went bad, and someone ran it with bad gas, it might stick the valves and bend some pushrods. Otherwise, it's kind of a strange thing to happen.
Sounds like your dealing with a lot of unknown. Personally I'd do a leak down on all 8 holes just to make sure the bent push rods weren't caused by a Piston kissing a valve. That would cause low or No compression in given cyl. A timing chain issue with NO bent valves will give you high or low comp numbers on all 8 holes. That depends on what direction (Advance or Retarded) the gear is. Our Rear Morrison motor has the flipped fireing order. To many numbers to remember so I can get you that info Monday. However you should be able to tell very easly with the covers off. The Wizzard
I've never heard of Bad Gas sticking a valve but i guess ya never know. At any rate you should give that Motor a complete physical before going any further. The Wizzard
What camshaft does it have? Does it have stock or aftermarket valve springs? BBC's don't like higher lift cams and stock springs . That may be why the bent and broken pushrods. Check for coil bind.
On the timing marks on your lower sprocket...some of the double roller chains with the advance adjustable keyed slots have three positions. When the crank is in the lined up position...the wood drift key in crankshaft is usually around the 2o'clock position with the dot lined up to the cam sprocket. So if you have the "dots" lined up you should be good to go. Next I'm asuming you adjusted your rockers correctly after installing your new lifters. So not knowing if the cam was new...I've had big blocks that had worn lobes that would back fire like crazy until warmed up. One case ...I've chase a timing issue on a big block that had a spread bore carb on it. The vacuum secondary linkage was bent causing it to be on high idle.....You would start the engine...it was on the high idle circuit ..couldn't get it below 1100 or 1000 rpm by adjusting idle screws....then retard timing...then it would backfire...almost like it had a vacuum leak.... Have to retard the timing a ton and then causing back fires. Believe it or not ...once I took the carb off..I found it. Straightened the carb secondary rod.... High idle was fixed. Engine timing came in and idled at 750 rpm. Hope you find it.
Depending on cam grind...double check your valve spring and valve retainer clearance on your opened valve setting so there is nothing hitting the bottom of retainer to valve guide clearance and or coil bind also....something broke that push rod.We will be watching...hope you find something...
All the old lifters looked to be in good shape except 2 had the caps/seats sunk down into the lifter. No damage or excessive wear on bottoms of any of them. One lifter snuck out of its holder and was laying in the valley. I don't believe cam is wiped out. I don't believe the timing chain/gears are off at all. Has comp cam valve springs. Had stock 5/16 pushrods and guides. I believe the stock pushrods had a part to do with why a few broke. I upgraded to comp cams 3/8 pushrods and guides. I'm 99% sure I adjusted all rockers properly when I installed pushrods. I set dizzy back to where it runs for now. Still feels like it has a misfire, I found that the cams that change firing order switch 4 and 7 around, going to swap them see if that does anything. Also plan on doing a compression check. Hoping it's something stupid I let slip past me!
The odds of it having a swapped firing order cam are pretty slim.... Compression check is a good idea. Also check to make sure all the valves are opening all the way. I'd be leery of the cam, now that it's had the lifters replaced after it was already broken in.
Jim, this method puts #6 in the firing position. If both rockers of cylinder #1 are moving when you move the crank back and forth, you're in the overlap period between the exhaust and intake stroke of cylinder #1. Assuming that it's a standard firing order, of course.
Just so I'm thinking properly,if I'm on tdc compression stroke both valves should be closed on #1 cylinder, correct?
Well I know I've got tdc set right at least. Haha keep u guys updated after compression test and some monkeying around w it today.
Yes, both closed, making cylinder pressure. It's not the only thing that matters though. You need to know where TDC is exactly, from there you can dial in a little advance to get it running enough to tune. I get it that bumping the starter and working solo has you behind the 8 ball, but just get close (the compression tester is the right idea), then bring it to TDC with a long ratchet or breaker bar. You can also do the plug hole interference gig.. Stick a rubber hose in the plug hole and turn it over by hand until it stops. Go backward and do the same. 1/2 way between those 2 is TDC. Mark your damper at each, if your timing mark is in the center you can now trust it.
Bent push rods, rods, lifters popped up out of their bore, damn! Sounds like the results of a severe over-rev condition to me. Could be other damage not revealed yet.
Got a buddy coming over to help me out in a bit. Going to check wires to make sure I don't have a roasted wire, and do compression test. If all shows well/consistent I will double check my timing marks to verify the tape on balancer is correct. I'm feeling that if it's running at probably 25-30 degrees retarded, that I've got a wasted cam or the timing chain/gears are indeed not lined up properly or out of spec. Any other ideas/suggestions as to why timing has to be so retarded for it to even run? Advancing the dizzy while idling or under throttle doesn't even bring it near tdc on tape.
You sure you have your timing light on number one wire Make a piston stop and put a mark on the damper
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