Hi to all, am considering fitting 4 x 48 IDA's to my warm 354. Will purchase 4 new carbs if I go this way on a Hot Heads intake. This is new for me so am struggling to understand what I should do with the tuning of the carbs ( venturi's etc) I would appreciate any advice or suggestions at all, good and bad, as to where I should be going with this. The look of the car is important and currently runs 4 x 94's on a dual log so only the Webbers will cut it for point of difference! Cheers Ian
It shouldn't be a problem in Aussie [or NZ] because Webers were run on TransAm cars downunder. So the knowledge is out there in Aussie. Redlineweber in the USA can give you a ballpark setup. maybe these guys can help also http://www.weberperformance.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=4 Don't run a log or common plenum manifold with webers, they need individual runners to run properly
There are great tuning books for Webers and Dellortos. Try Amazon. Start by thinking about them as fuel injection with float bowls, one removable venturi for each cylinder and infinitely tunable. You will need a Uni-Syn (simple individual throat flow meter).
if you don't know how to tune one weber 4 will turn your hair grey instantly. If you can get a reasonable start set up that's a huge help, especially as buying multiple jets or venturis gets expensive very quickly. Try NOT to buy Chinese or other than Italian Webers, sometimes they don't have correct progression ports drilled which will cost you many $$$$ to find and correct (correcting means new carb body). Just accept your going to have to spend some time and money on a dyno with someone who knows webers and you'll be fine.
Thanks, they were the guys I was going to purchase the carbs from, unfortunately they couldnt/ wouldn't give me a suggestion about tuning but figured the engine would run with what the carbs initially come with.
PM me I will sort you a ball park setup , but will need lots more information. Don't buy yet i can probably do better price aaand service. Genuine Weber, not repro knock offs. Some place in Aussie is getting them made in Asia ... very poor copies. I have been an official Weber dealer since 1977.
Webers are probably the simplest carbs to tune and set up. 1 or 4 (or 6) wont make any difference as long as they are all the same and you balance the airflow/linkages from the start . There is no such thing as a Chinese Weber, just a Chinese knock off, and those were commissioned by some Aussie firm. All new real Webers are now made in Spain.
Hmmmm........Webers, lovely idea. This A roadster lives in Germany IIRC. Took this photo at the A-Bombers Weekender in Sweden back in 2007.
What 97 says above. These carbs are really easy to tune if you have the flow gage. I have 2 3cIDAs on my Buick and it took a few times during the last summer to get them right but after the final adjustment they have gone 8000 miles without touching them. For jets I simply invested in a set of small drill bits and soldered them shut and redrilled them to the required size. A color tune plug is helpful too. The choke size isn't that critical for making the engine run as you tune the jetting to the choke that is in the carb. The mistake may be in saying that I have 48mm IDAs so I'll put 48mm chokes in. It really has a lot to do with what else you have done to the engine. When I first put the Webers on the Buick it was bone stock and it just didn't run very well with the 30mm chokes. I bought length of aluminum bar and make a set of 24mm chokes and started to tune with them and found the engine really worked well with 26mm chokes. Then I changed everything inside the engine and it would still run with the 26mm chokes but then I put the 30s in and things started to come to life. I then started to bore the 26s out at 1mm increments until I ended up at 36mm. There was no dyno involved here, just road test and plug reading to make sure they weren't running lean. They really are visual you know and there are probably many other induction systems that will produce more performance but face it, what it is really about is will they look cool, start and idle without a hitch. They return very good gas mileage if you are geared to run below 2400 RPM, which is about when the idle jets go away. My mileage dropped quite a bit too when I went from 34mm to 36mm and I had to make a choice between 24mpg or 20mpg for the performance gain. Jim Inglese says, you didn't put the webers on the engine for the gas mileage but I must say it sure is nice to have and we aren't on the throttle all the time. He also said that the manifold works best with 48mm 3cIDAs but they are really expensive. They are really cool to look at and show off at the local gas station and really sound great at full open. In the end this is something that only I can enjoy. If you do it I hope you do too. The tuning just takes time or if you have someone do it for you, money. Greg
Might look up Jim Inglese: He's helped a number of rodders in the Northeast. Listed at about the third entry, in Connecticut. http://www.eightstack.com/Dealers.html
Marsh motorsport in NZ gets them tuned to perfection. Here's a pic of my brother's set up [ he's done a few for racers. but ultimately they need to run on a dyno to set up for the total combination ]
Nice work Greg, starting to get an understanding of where I need to go. Sounds like a little persistence has worked for you, Many thanks
Webers are good choice. Know a guy that ran 392 w/webers on a SK class boat in the '60's. Nobody liked it, because he beat the hell out of everybody. From what I understand ten times easier to tune than Strom 97's. Modified an eight deuce intake. I think his kid might even still have the parts. Owned the boat until the early '90's. Boat was the "Grey Hound"
Gene Adams and Hot Heads did a nice job with a 385 ci early Chrysler Hemi in one of the Engine Master Challenges
The 392 + 0.40 that's going in my '30 roadster. Jim Inglese supplied the jetting and linkage to make them work on this engine because they don't right out of the box. Got the carbs from Redline Weber through my Worldpac account. Working on a more normal looking water cross-over. It has 354 heads so the Hot Heads cast aluminum cross-over is too short. Gonna get another one and make a long one out of the two. Overkill, but it ain't fun unless it's dangerous.
I have them on my 392 hemi and I've had nothing but issues with them. Jim Inglese built the setup and now he doesn't know what's wrong. Know one around here knows anything about them. I keep getting a snapping that shoots thru the carbs at random around 1800rpm. A mini backfire. I've tried about everything and about ready to remove them
Just about to start on this. Had Webers on this for years and its always been a dog. Sometimes runs fine, other times its like we threw a cat down the trumpets. Any info will help.
This is a familiar symptom to me. The snapping you describe is a lean condition and I believe, in my system, that it is caused by a small particle passing through the low speed jets. The small particle I believe is a product of heat on the gas in the line making a sort of carbon like substance. It is so small that a filter won't take it out. I thought it was the gas tank but latter found a isolated area of gas line that was very close to the exhaust system. The carbs were always backfiring as you describe. When I would pull the top of the carbs off to expose the float bowl there would be a very fine brown substance, that I believed to be rust, in the bottom. After removing this substance the system (drain the bowls and use a vaccum) they would operate fine. I coated the tank and cleaned all the fuel lines, at which time I discovered the line close to the exhaust. After insulating the line from the exhaust the problem has gone away. I also found that the carbs are very sensitive to heat. You have to have a barrier between the manifold and the carb. The 1/4" asbestos gasket needs to be in the system and with the tight conditions in my engine compartment I ended up with a 1/4" laminated plastic plate that deflects the heat from hitting the float bowls. I also tried an aluminum plate that worked, but not as well. If you enlarge the photo in my last post you can see the heat deflector plate between the carbs and manifold. From pictures I've looked at it seems to be common placed. Hope this helps. Greg
Sidedraft DCOE's have the same problem.....especially when mounted on 4 cyl non-cross flow type engines, where you have to install a very effective heat shield under the carbs as the heat from the exhaust header underneath will cause terrible running issue's as soon as the car is stationary from extended times, such as in traffic. Not a problem in a pure track competition car, but used to cause a real headache when in a road registered semi-comp vehicle.
In retrospect I believe that the DCNF Weber would have been a better choice for my V6. I know why they used the 3c IDA as that is the experience they had with DCOEs which they used because of the distributor location on V8s. However the DCNFs would have fit nicely on the Buick V6 with its distributor location. The DCNFs are designed to fit closely in a row and the low speed jet is out in the open. The IDAs are a problem tuning as all the low speed adjustments are almost covered up on the left hand carb. If the car were used for competition, this would be a problem with changing jets for track conditions. However once the carbs are set for the street, that's IT. In the end you make the adjustments to use the system and live with it or go to a 4 barrel or multi 2 barrels which is more HAMB friendly anyway. I know the drill and am prepared to live with it and that is what makes mine different. I believe that is what hot rodding is all about. Greg
The yellow tourer above. Now has 'standard 302 crate engine. I think the jets are 151. Can anyone give me a starting point for the mains as it sees to run OK on the idle jet (up to about 2500 rpm.If I can get a starting point for the mains then I will make some venturi plates and open them up in 2 mm increamants to see how it makes a difference. Always willing to learn and take advise and no problem with machine time. Just want to get this sorted out. Funny thing is NEVER had a problem with twin carb set up on a 4 banger. Is the old style flow meter with a tube and float OK for balancing them???? Thanks Gerry
I don't think your mains are the problem. Do you own a lathe? Restrictors might work but you would be better off making chokes. The check for main jets is the same for all carbs, wide open, chop the gas and ignition, coast to a stop and check the plugs. Black you are running rich, white you had better open them up. There is a lot of info on Ford engines with Weber carbs. Are your accel pumps good and adjusted correctly? Greg
You need to make sure the chokes are the correct size for your motor/application and jet around them.
Thanks. I do have a lathe. We used a set of these on a Rover V8 (small Buick) back in the day and even with help from 'experts' couldn't get them to run right. I started to turn up some chokes at 32mm dia but we sold the set up before I completed all 8. It shouldn't be a problem to get the carbs working right but for some reason I cant get my head around the problems because they change all the time. Fitted an electric fuel pump and regulator, made no difference.....What fuel pressure is best. Looked for info and came up with mostly race set ups. This is a road car and not hammered, except for the odd occasion. Just want it to run right and smooth. Course EFI would sort it out. All done on the PC not with your hands getting dirty, but there's no fun in that; is there.
Fuel pressure is critical. Has to be below 4 psi. You will have to run a regulator and your float valves might not hold that much pressure (more like 2-3 psi). It sounds as if you aren't getting the low speed (best lean) adjusted correctly. This drill takes many times to get correct. Adjust to best lean, match flow with flow gage and air correction jet, bring RPM back to set (mine is 1000 RPM) using the idle stop screws. Carbs have to separated at the linkage from each other. They all have to be at best lean, draw the same air and be at the correct RPM before you connect them together. I was about to throw the thing away too until I got my head around the fact that it is like tuning a single cylinder motorcycle times 4, 6 or 8 times. Its a individual runner system and each cylinder has to be adjusted to match all the others. If a cylinder isn't correct I have found that going to the rear of the car and listening to the exhaust one or both will sound as if you have a leaking valve. Every time you adjust flow with the air correction you have to return the idle to base RPM using the idle stop screw on that carburator. Mine works just the way you want yours to work. The TR3 is a road car and runs on the idle circuit to about 3000 RPM which is about 75 mph. Anything above that is main jet and choke. I know that there is a emulsion tube involved here too but there are only a few that work with larger engines so you really don't have to make too many guesses if all other methods fail (chokes and main jets). You can go to EFI but then you will be doing it with a computer and won't be getting your hands dirty. LOL. Hang in there. Greg
Reminds me of a story about the Australian Chrysler 265 'hemi' six. They wanted to run Webers on their top performance model but couldn't get them to run quite right. So they shipped a car and a couple of engineers to Italy to have them set up by the Weber factory. When they got there they looked around for the dyno room and test facility but there wasn't one. Just a couple of mechanics with a wooden box full of jets and parts. They started experimenting, when they thought they had something they would take it out on the road and test it. One of their test roads was a steep mountain road leading to a monastery. As there was nothing up there but the monastery, there wasn't much traffic. They would start off at an idle in high gear and floor the gas pedal. When they had the carbs set up perfect, the car would take off without a buck and accelerate to 70MPH at the top of the hill. The mechanics said "no Ferrari will do that. No Ferrari will take that hill in high gear the way your car does".
Anybody know who makes/made this setup? I have fetish for oddball induction setups. Most everything I have are multi carb setups. Ive had three sets of Webers over the past 30 some odd years and love them. The setup her intrigues me. All I need is the intake for a chevy. I'll figure out the rest
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