With rapid prototyping and additive manufacturing, have we gotten to the point of getting a cam made with arbitrary dimensions? or still shacked to core availability? I would think that hobbing out a steel cam core would be trivial matter on a CNC machine these days. I've done some (not exhaustive) internet searching and it seems that is not the case.
Depends on where you look and what you are willing to spend. If you expect Summit SBC prices. Aint gonna happen. But I have had race cams made for A '32 Plymouth and a '26 Dodge. If you contact Dema Elgin or Donny Johanson or Joe Panak they will steer you in the direction you seek.
Well, I wasn't thinking of Summit but the actual cam manufacturers like Comp Cams. I know people who are working on this problem, but they are working out of their house and while still a business, they are basically hobbyists who are doing this out of the love of the marque. I will definitely contact these people! Thanks! EDIT: Have emailed Elgin, Howards, but couldn't find any internet info on Patnak. (I think people working on the Stude cam project have already contacted both Elgin and Howards but I'll see what I find.)
http://www.fairbornstudebaker.com/ This Ted Harbits old company, they have R1 & R2 cams but I really don't know what youre looking for. If they cant help you they will know who can
Look at http://roto-faze.com/. That is Joe's company. He made blanks for me and also the FlatCad engine. I'm not sure Donny is still with Howards.
I remember a really long time ago, Isky announced they would no longer be grinding cams for Buick straight eights. Or other inline eights. Then I think it was flathead Cads. Around 10 years ago I wanted a cam for a Packard V8. I knew Isky ground roller cams for them at one time, but had advertised they would give you the cam if you bought the rollers. This made me think they were out of the Packard cam business. Sure enough they had no interest in grinding a cam for my Packard. Eventually I spoke to Ed himself. His solution was for me to come down and look through all the left over stuff to see if I could find a Packard cam. Well I didn't want to do that, but I understand that Jack Vines did and found plenty of Studebaker and Packard cams. I bought a 505C from Jack and took it to Dema Elgin to be reground. Dema will make and grind a cam for anything. Allison, Myer Drake Chevy 4 cam heads. Blown Chrysler straight 8. He don't care. But I did end up with Ed's phone number, cell phone number and home phone number. If you want to talk about cams, he is your guy. Make sure you have time. He has been there since dirt and can tell you everything that happened in that time.
That is the typical story: find a core and regrind it. And that is the problem. The Stude core has small lobes with an already tiny cast min diameter - so you can't grind the base circle down relative to the lobe to achieve big lift and/or duration. All the current regrinds sink the base circle into the casting min diameter so you can say that there is no "lobe" for base cicle. In fact, the last regrind I got had some flash on the casting such that the lifter hit it and did not make it to the base circle. Luckily I degree every lobe which really sucks - but you have to do that with regrinds. The R2 cam has slightly bigger lobes than the stock cam, but the small difference combined with rarity of these cams makes it not worth tweaking a stock lobe regrind. Even if you gave Comp or Isky or whoever a cast core, I don't know if they could grind the journals and hob the distributor gear (if a steel cam, probably would have to have a cast iron gear pressed on which might be tricky considering the rear journal diameter.) I know Dema has been approached by people wanting to sell Stude cams and there was not a solution to be had. (It could have been a pricing issue - too expensive to make most customers not opt for a regrind. and I have no issues with regrinds - never had a problem with one.)
Packard cams are the same way. The 505C I got from Jack was very much a billet cam. Hard face overlay. Joe makes billets for Dema and others. But, yes it is a pricing issue. He will either braze on a gear from a stock cam, (often the best way to match the distributor drive gear) or cut a gear. More $$$. I guess you have discussed this with Jack Vines?
Rich- do you think they could do a regrind for an ALF 12 cylinder? I have a few good cores. I have been wondering that with modern engine modelling there is probably some more HP and torque to be found in many old engines...
Jack Vines definitely sounds like a guy to talk to. Does he have a business name or email? Or just through his postings on packardinfo.com?
yes i believe Dema can and will grind any cam. Dema apprenticed with Ed Winfield. He grinds cams for several groups that don't advertise it. He has a web site. Jack is on here as PackardV8 I believe
Might consider contacting Delta out in the Pacific NW and see if they can help you? Delta Camshafts Phone: (800) 562-5500 2366 Tacoma AVE S. Tacoma, WA 98402 [email protected] And Jack is the go to guy too, imho! pdq67
Don't forget to ask over on Racing Studebakers Forum... http://www.racingstudebakers.com/foo/index.php
UPDATES: YES blanks: Joe Panek (Roto-Faze)S, he can do blanks - and for OE flat tappets too. Jack Vines NO blanks: Howards but recommended Demos Cams for a regrind. Delta Cams ...will add to this list as I get the info back
Then, if one could get a new core, the Stude V8 uses small diameter cam bearings. A bigger lobe just won't fit through the holes. To make new cams, it's just time and money. A while back a Racing Studebaker member got a group buy on billet roller cams with a Stude gear doweled onto the end. Ended up being about $500 each, which wasn't too bad; by the time one bought new roller lifters, new pushrods, it was getting toward a $1500 bill. The bad news was the grinder used definitely didn't have the latest-greatest best science pattern catalog; we had to take whatever grind they had which was close to what we wanted. Bottom line - no one has ever gone back to make a pattern and cast new iron cam cores for the Studebaker V8. Just was not enough market - (there is an acronym, CASO for CheapAssStudebakerOwner) It's getting better and there are now a few who will spend decent money, but still not enough to invest in making them to resell. jack vines
What about hi lift rocker arms? Not too hard to make of billet aluminum or maybe you could get some made by a manufacturer of rocker arms. This would allow a little more lift . I don't know how much you could get out of this, if the cam profile were designed accordingly.
I checked a Stude stock and R2 cams and the lobe tips are pretty far inboard of the bearing diameter - of the order of .100" using a wooden ruler and a tape measure. There is meat to be had there in a good core. With additive manufacturing exploding, creating a CAD file and printing a pattern for a sand casting is quick and cheap. Then get them cast in India or possibly Mexico. If that tech and sourcing is put together, it would open up the cam market for people that don't want to spend $1500 for a roller their car really doesn't need.. Of course, the gear is the tricky part. You actually have to be a machinist to hob the gear and an inspection-ist to back out the dimensioning of the gear. Anyone who designs gears would know how to do this. You could digitize the gear or I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you could take some pics of the gear and back out the CAD file. There is some alien tech out there right now. Cheap ass Studebaker guys? Someone just paid $350 for a NOS R2 loser cam on eBarf.
Perhaps this company in England can provide a new chilled iron camshaft: http://www.newman-cams.com/production_capabilities.html It was mentioned that the journals were too small to allow large lobes, could you possibly bore the cam holes in the engine to a larger, common bearing size and get the new cam made to suit? It would seem preferable to have a new camshaft than one made up of a new piece attached to an old gear. Also, hardenable cast iron bars are commercially available, so presumably a camshaft could be roughed out from that, then hardened and lobes and journals ground.
Newman sure is making it clear they do 1x! Interesting about the cast iron bars being available. I don't know exactly what kind of cast iron modification is required for flat tappets. I had a vague notion that they had a case property than homogeneous. But I do know that even the cam grinders do not want cylindrical lobe profiles - they want a rough shaped lobe to minimize grinding. I got a personal tour of the Chrysler Kenosha Engine Plant and saw crankshafts being hogged out. They had these monster rotating cutter heads that machined journals in seconds. The rate of removal was like brass flying out of an A10. I was at a local shop that fabs turbo setups for most Hondas and they had a big CNC that was just pounding out adapter plates. Another shop I was in, TKO Motorsports, had this uber water jet. There are some real high tech stuff in some of these shops. The UK guy sounds interesting. IN FACT, I have a good friend who lives in England, I'll ask her if she knows anything about them!
As I said, it's all just time and money. I rebuild Studebaker and Packard V8s and most owners choke at a $3,000 stock rebuild. Start talking about the cost of custom speed parts and since they're mostly old guys, apoplexy is a risk. FWIW, the real choke point is the Stude heads. It takes $2,000 of professional porting and valve work to get all eight Stude intake ports to flow 200 CFM. Until that's done, the best science cam just makes different noise, but not that much more horsepower. (Yes, custom aluminum heads have been tried in the past, but there wasn't enough market to get them past the beta test phase. Several discussions have been under way for several years, but still nothing in sight.) jack vines
I just looked over on Stan's bore space list and see that a Stude is 4.5". So just maybe can a Chevy RO7 cam be modified enough to be used? Bore the cam tunnel out?? Just asking is all because I flat don't know. pdq67
The R4 heads were the same as the R3, and thus yes, very special. The one-of-one R5 heads were ported R3s. jack vines
I was going to say that I have purchased oddball cams from Isky and Erson both in the last couple of decades. It helps if you get the right guy on the phone and they know where to look for old blanks. LOL I got a cam from Erson ( I remember when it was Sig Erson how old does that make me ) for a Hudson Twin H back around the turn of the century. Of course I had to pick up the phone and talk to a real person. Calling on the phone what a concept.
The Dodge and DeSoto have a similar problem so we built a grinding station, separate from the profile regrinding, so that we could cut back, between the lobes, into the 'core' and provide some relief at the base circle. It is not a speedy process but the only way to add some lift when really needed. .
Contact Racer Brown in Baltimore Md. He is a cam grinder. Reground a cam for my flathead that really rocks
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