I agree what if its the coating itself that's bad. Its only fair to let the shop honor a issue. Someone needs to inspect it, we pay big bucks for insurance just for coating issues. It happens.
If you take it down to bare metal, then you have eliminated all of the previous material and any possibility of future problems caused by it. At this point, it would be best to start from the ground up.
Problem with the base? there is a reason why the paint did not adhere to it. maybe it was just a bad batch of top coat or mis-labeled paint but for me it would fall back on will it happen again and was it the foundation that was the problem.
I mostly agree with 31Vicky as to not needing to be stripped to bare. I have repainted a few cars with adhesion problems. Mostly 5-8 year old cars with bad paint. Most of the times it worked to just strip color. I have had a few problem jobs that came off again in too short a period of time. These were for a used car lot. They never came back. I would just see them around town.
Never say never brother. "Haven't yet" is appropriate. I had an adhesion issue with the first coat of epoxy on bare metal. It didn't show up until painting day. The manufacture covered it with but with a truck load of product. I had to eat the labor in One big chunk. get it back in little pieces by not having to buy the stuff as its used. Of course this stuff cost them pennies on the dollar to produce. If the dump 5,000 worth of product to cover 5,000 of your labor cost its supposed to work out but it still tastes like shit for me and they are out a few hundred bucks.
Options for the owner: Why pay again? 150 to 200 hours to PROPERLY strip and redo the last primer coat and top coats plus material???? Have the shop (in writing) guarantee that ALL of the paint will be removed and redone to shop+ condition. Hire an inspector to watch the strip-repaint process. 4X^ the shop will pay for ALL expenses (in writing) to redo the car......I would have a heart to heart talk with the owner of the shop and explain that the car will go to shows with the shops (too many Z's) name on it with the paint in its current condition and also send images to the shops local competition.
Just by looking at the pics, and the way the paint just pealed off in long strips, no bubbling or discolorations, I would agree, if a sealer was used, that the window to respray was missed. You have to be very mindful of you shop temperature, at all stages of you paint job. Even if your directions say you have to respray within 2 hrs or you have to scuff up the surface before you can respray , your shop temperature could decrease that window significantly. All your sweet and hard work, metal work, welding, sanding, cutting, pounding,and money, all of these and more depend one thing...... how the "paint and clear coat flows" and in this case.............adheres. Primer and sealer incompatibility have caused many problems for me in the past and probably will continue to pledge me in the future. Obviously,before redoing, the problem has to be positively identified and corrected.
I would not go back to bare metal, as that is not where the adhesion problem is. Peel back to primer, re-prep, no finer than 600 grit, and seal with epoxy.
I worked in a body shop once where we painted a near new '67 T-Bird with acrylic enamel. Couple days later the owner ran it through a car wash. Similar result.
I once had an old car that I was going to repaint. I started stripping and the paint came off like that. I used a razor blade to strip it all off in big sheets. I sanded the underlying primer off too because its was too slick.
I know there has been somewhat of a learning curve on some of the new paint California is forced to use now , is it possible some old technique or bad habits have bitten with new paints that old stuff was not affected by?
It's been years since the changeover I would think/hope shops would be up to speed on water based paints by now.
Solvent based 2k products are put under and over water based paints all the time without problems. Must have been a prep issue, or like others have said, the topcoat time was surpassed on the primer/sealer or products were incompatible (different paint lines). At least A good blow gun will make stripping the paint a breeze!
It's not necessarily a change to waterborne, its a voc limit. Shops in California can still use solvent, just has more acetone (compliant solvent) which makes a faster flash. Also every time the weather changes I get shops that call me and tell me how much my paint sucks, then I bring the right reducer and I am less sucky after that. So it doesn't matter how long a lot of shops use products, some shops never seem to consider temperature and humidity. One good rule of thumb is for every 10 degrees below 70 double your flash and cure times, and every 10 degrees above 70 speed your recoat time up roughly 20 percent.
I agree with most of the responses, time before it was painted over the sealer, etc. It shouldn't need stripped to bare metal though. As long as the shop wants to redo it, why pay anyone else to redo it.
Is it the whole car or spots? Was it painted in panels and sections on different days or painted as 1 entire car. In the pics all we can see is the color peeled off of a very straight car. Why does it need to be "complete" redo and major deal? Based on the pics shown so far, the color coat need to be redone- finish blowing it off, reprep the surface and painted again.
No need at all to strip it to bare, it's obvious that the problem was adhesion of paint to the tan primer/sealer. I had a partner doing a paint job, on his own, for a friend of his. This happened because he used PrepSol instead of PrePaint cleaner before shooting. Wasn't paying attention! Others have offered good reasons, as well. Lordz has a pretty good track record of building fantastic customs. I would definitely let them redo it. Lets you save money, and let's them save face. Could have been an honest mistake. Four years to build a really well done chopped custom? Not a long time.
im willing to bet it was sprayed in water base paint. if you don't let the base dry completely before you clear coat it this exact thing will happen. you can literally peal the paint off in sheets. if this is the case there is no need to strip the car to metal. find out if its sprayed in water base, if so thats what happened.
I love reading from all the "experts" that probably haven't done a single digit percentage of the work that pros do monthly, weekly, hell daily. It's an easy but painful fix. Not letting the shop make good is simple infantile vengeance. And 4 years? Easy to believe. Did he support the whole shop's expenses for 4 years? Did he take breaks during the build for personal reasons? Who knows for sure but those that are HANDS ON INVOLVED. What happened? 100 different things could've happened. Surely it can be broken down into a 1/2 dozen possibilities. I had one go bad on me while in process about 2 1/2 years ago. Still don't know what happened and neither does the supplier. They gave me new product and I suffered through the correction. What was it? You tell me. How does the wheelhouse of the 1/4 panel cure hard as a rock and the rest stay soft? How does 1 door cure and the other stay sticky? Same gun, product, air, time and asshole pulling the trigger. How did it get hard as a honeymoon dick in the cup overnight but parts of the car stay tacky and uncured? I've chalked it up to a simple "Shit happens and it happened to me". Hasn't happened since, may never again, but I made it right while the outside temps went up to the mid 90s 2 days later ( the shop/outdoor temp was 76 when it was sprayed). I'm not gonna bother giving all the tech details, but after 43 years of this shit just believe all Ts were crossed and Is dotted. I hope the 1st finisher gets to make it right, and I further hope that they give it priority or work long nights to turn n burn it back. That's a win/win for all involved. I would like to know what happened just outta professional curiosity, but at the end of the day it's really nobody's biz but the shop and car owner. Good luck...
I agree with Paint Guru, I worked at a large Ford Dealership in Dallas and we had factory peelers. I seen new cars that had too many dust nibs sanded out and rebased and recleared from the factory only to have them peal a few months later. Just think the windshield and any fixed glass was glued to it. I would really let them redue it especially if there outer jobs turn out fine. Primer and sealer can case harden and nothing sticks. Just from looking at the picture I would have to look at the paint and surface prep and time frame, and what they wiped it down with. I got a can of retarder in a case of hardner never notice it till I came to work on Monday and the whole car was still wet.it was 4 door Crown Vic. No fun to wash down, got replacement paint but the labor was on me. The Highlander has a good point. Some times it's a honest mistake. I would definitely let them redue it. Good Luck
What I'd like to know is how the hell does paint peal and what in the hell does the word redue mean Is English the language you are using ?
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