I have a dilemma with my gasser build and realised this may be the ideal place for advice on my options. I'm currently building a Metropolitan gasser (no comments on how stupid this is please!!). The car originally came with a Rover V8 but i'm a Ford man so fitting a 302 instead with a rear sump. However, the engine sits over the crossmember for the transverse spring and is perhaps sat too high and the engine mountings fall in a slightly difficult place to fabricate something that looks tidy. I know sitting the engine high in a gasser is fairly normal but its a bit extreme. The carb and dizzy already protrude through the bonnet although I plan to have a thunderbolt type hood scoop which will cover these. However, I would in the future like to switch to a tunnel ram which would then be sat ridiculously high!! The other problem is the engine position puts the water pump through the original radiator position so I will have to come up with a clever alternative radiator position such as lay down in the chassis rails. So, I have 3 options that i'd be interested to hear comments on. Bear in mind i'd like the car to maintain a 60s look. I'd like to avoid components that wouldnt be readily available in the 60s; 1. Leave the transverse spring and mount the engine in the current location. This allows me to avoid touching the chassis builder's lovely fabrication but means I need to maybe lay a radiator down between the chassis rails and probably forget the idea of a tunnel ram. 2. replace the transverse spring with some kind of longitudinal springs, maybe quarter elliptical allowing me to do away with the crossmember and mount the engine a little lower and further back in the chassis. 3. replace the transverse spring and dampers with coilovers again allowing me to lose the crossmember and improve the engine location. But would coilovers take me away from the genuine 60s gasser look? Any opinions will be much appreciated. Pictures aren't great i'm afraid but hopefully helps!! I'm afraid pictures are poor!!
Two springs leaf/coil would be easiest, But it appears to be well done, I would be moving the engine back as far possible to start, Since your not into paint yet ...figure how much clearance you need for tunnel ram an cut the body/cowl accordingly... An closer look I think the root of your problem is the crossmember, I would fab. A dropped crossmember enough to clear pan when (eng.) pushed back My $.02
Thanks Pal. The chassis has been very well built albeit the poot photos dont show it. The crossmember over the bellhousing doesnt serve much purpose. I'm inclined to remove that, set the engine back and see how that benefits me. The problem with going lower is the starter may cause me an issue with the steering box. It's easier for me to assess the situations with that crossmember out the way and nothing is lost getting rid of it. Thanks for the advice, after reading another thread about gassers i was awaiting a barrage of comments about how ludicrous and unrealistic a metropolitan gasser would be, even more so without a roof. I want the car to be fairly true to the sixties but not a 100% rule book perfect gasser to a particular era which seems to be the argument on the other post I was reading. Couple more pictures
hard to tell by the pictures , how much clearance do you have between the pan and front crossmember? i think i'm seeing a couple inches?
The engine is sat on a 2" block of wood on the crossmember for positioning. Since the picture i have replaced the wood with a piece of 1/2"! It would be impossible to get the oil pan off with the engine in the car but thats not too big a problem
There were coilovers by the late 60s. The quarter elliptical or coilovers would work but my vote would be drop the crossmember if possible
Billyboy, First, I love your project, it will be great. If mine, I would remove what ever crossmembers that inhibit me from locating the engine and trans where I "want" it to be. Locate the engine and trans where it should be, replace crossmembers where needed. I would use coil overs for simplicity, as they have been around for 60+ years. Set it up with the appropriate radiator in the proper location, no need to let the car complicate the build. This is my style of 'build'. My rule is "Place all my parts where I want them to be, and build the chassis to hold it all togather". This way it works and looks right.
Thanks for the very blunt and clear opinion. Its very helpful and pretty much what's in my mind and the reason for posting was really to see other people's view. It's not like I'm obsessed to build a bang on period correct gasser as I couldn't do it with this car for many reasons!! But I do want to make an effort to build it in keeping with the era. I am going to chop the bar that goes over the bell housing first as it's not particularly useful. Try and get the engine back and down a bit and avoid messing with the chassis. If that's still not feasible, the spring will go in favour of coilovers! I have a drop tube with four stud alloy hubs for sale so the spring can go with them!! Thanks
You're right, nice chassis work so far! You could move the crossmember and spring forward and mount it out front of the axle '40 Ford style but I have a feeling that won't help all that much. I agree with Ahotrod, cut out the crossmember, position the engine/trans where you want it and use coil-overs. Looks like your existing bracket can be used. They were using coil-overs in the mid-sixties so you are still in your time period. Paint 'em so they don't look too 'billet'. You will need to add a Panhard rod of some kind, one more thing to be in the way.
I would go with the coil-overs, your towers look plenty stout. These were installed in '67, when master chassis man, Steve Plueger rebuilt this truck, note the diagonal braces.
Thanks chaps. Me and the other half are still debating!! The reason I'm torn is I didn't want to buy the chassis then spend a load of time and money turning it into something else! I am an engineer so do have sense, and sense tells me coilovers. Y heart tells me don't modify the chassis!! I need someone to keep beating more sense into me. Or maybe someone to sneak in the garage with an angle grinder and chop the crossmember out!! What's people's views on handling as is compared to coilovers with panhard rod! Considering it's primarily a road car and coilovers will allow me to drop the engine weight down!!
Yeah, you sound like me. Always trying to keep it easy and simple. Sometimes you've just gotta bite the bullet and do what's right, even if it's more work than you hoped for. In the end it's always worth it. Order up some coil-overs and get out that grinder! Building pint-sized hot rods is always a challenge.
If I live closer, I show up with my Saws-all and grinder and we would have a new plan in 20 minutes. Take off your Engineering hat for a day or to so you stop thinking about it so hard ... all meant in jest my HAMB'r brother. I build Hot Rod's everyday all day, just "Rock the Toilet" ! One other option is to go with the parallel leaf springs on your axle as you mentioned before, I too would not be afraid to go that direction in a heart beat too.
First I like your car! I would have built it a lot less complicated and used dual leaf springs for ease and the older look you want. That makes a lot of room for other stuff. Good luck on your project, Gary
What is the wheelbase on that thing, 36"? You might need turning brakes on the rear just to keep it in a straight line down the strip! You're going to have your hands full with that little beast.
Ahotrod - thanks for the jokes! Always helpful for clearing the mind. Roadster1927 - if I had built the chassis it probably would have been different. But j bought it as is with a rover v8 already in it. It is very well designed and put together by Steve, the friend who built it. But it is I who decided to move the goalposts by opting for the 302 and four speed! Katuna - it's about 88" wheelbase!! The idea is to not go to mad with the engine. We have an alky 302 powered bantam altered for that. It does however mean temptation is there as we have a lot of performance parts for the 302!!
What about setting the engine back so the front small sump is behind the crossmember? That would solve the radiator problem, and you could squeeze the tubular crossmember between the front damper and the sump. That may also solve your starter interference you are concerned with. Might make for tighter inside the cabin area though, or at least a wider trans tunnel? If that does not work, I would lower the crossmember and then you could work on ride height with a different arch in the spring.
First thought was; Metropolitan? no way but artist's rendering is badd ass. Look forward to seeing the finished product.
I just went down to the garage and chopped the member over the bell housing to set the engine back enough. It then causes a clash with the gearbox crossmember that also supports the rear ladder bars. Also does cause a problem with the starter motor and steering box. Result is, definitely coilovers!!
I worked w/Gasser magazine, And Really dig Your car, Put a hardtop on it an tell'm STFU Rite! I Like outside the"Box" , Going to be a Handful (.)(.)
Cut the frame on both ends and widen it the amount needed for the engine with starter drop through and have no clearance interference. Easy enough to do at this point. I know you don't want to get into 're-fabing' the chassis, but the proper changes now with pay big dividend's in the project going forward.
Thanks for the positive comments guys. I do have a steel roof and the full rear wraparound screen for it which will be made into a removable hard top. Sounds crazy but the other half really wants a roadster but we both accept we live in manchester, england (the rainy city!!). Ahotrod - that won't help me. with the engine set back the main body of the gearbox then clashes with the crossmember for the gearbox and rear ladder bars. I will make my final assessment this weekend! Keep the transverse spring and get on with it or chop the crossmember and get hold of a pair of coilovers. I also realised the gearbox cannot go any lower so not much point lowering the engine. If i get the tunnel ram idea out of my head its not actually a problem!! Think i'm just causing more of a problem that there really is!!
I think its a cool project! Can't wait to see it running. I ran parallel leafs from Speedway on mine - the short ones - its not street driven car, probably a good thing because those things only move 3/4" total. The coils will probably ride better.
Very cool project, Looks like you're going to have to modify everything On the front part of that frame to get that Engine into that Chassis.
Edit. today....your attitude stinks. forget the advice you have asked for and leave it useless as is.
Definately not sectioning the body. Nor stretching the fenders. I wouldn't go to those extremes. Engine mounting will be solved by either stay where it is or coilovers to lose the crossmember. Only major body mods will be a copy of a thunderbolt hood scoop and the ford Anglia front wheel arches. Rear arches need finishing off as they are just rough cut. Still a lot of work in floorpan, cage, steering and pedals, brakes etc. etc,!!
like he says, if you want to make a car like this "work", then you need to be willing to do all the "work" that is required. There really aren't any satisfactory short cuts.
I don't intend to make shortcuts. I intend to build my car. It will look how I want it to look. I can't see the need to stretch the front end or section the body. There's no point it looking nothing like a metropolitan in the end otherwise there'd be no point starting with a metropolitan!! I don't disrespect anyone's opinion by the way. But I need to see it sat on the floor on the correct size wheels and tyres I already know I am fitting and with the front sheet metal on including the Anglia arches. If at that point the proportions don't look right we will re-visit the situation and see what needs to change. No doubt it'll be a hell of a lot of work for a tiny change which will make a huge difference!!
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