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Technical Old school mechanical fuel injection

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by CayoRV, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. CayoRV
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 356

    CayoRV
    Member

    With all the advances in electronic fuel management systems does anyone still try to run these old mechanical systems on their street driven hot rods? I ask because I have an old Aljo setup, or most of one of for a Buick nailhead and think it would be crazy cool to use on a project but really know nothing about this type of system. Could it be converted to electronic injection or would costs be rediculously high? Should I just forget it and hang it back on the wall. Most have told me these aren't good for anything but racing. Any value in them or just a neat piece of history?
    Just hoping to get some more info from the HAMBURG knowledge vault.
     
  2. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,306

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    Street/Strip in our 55 eversince 1968/69 our 55.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
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  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Aljo? Never heard of them. I have run Hilborn and long time ago Algon. I ran a Rons Racing (EVM) on a Pinto. If you think Hilborn are fussy, Algons are worse. Neither were made for the street. So, if you are Mr. Tune, and you have lots of time to play round. I guess you could run them. Chevys ran with mechanical fuel injection for years on the street. None that I could afford.
     
  4. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    All the aftermarket systems were for racing only. They were made to run at full throttle and to idle, barely, and nothing in between.

    Guys have got them to work on the street after years of experimenting and modifications. If you can find someone who has worked with an Aljo system he could save you a lot of time, money and grief.

    Or go electronic and skip most of the agony.
     
    volvobrynk likes this.

  5. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Simultaneous posts.
     
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If you want to convert to electronic the guys at Megasquirt should be able to help. Ask in the forums.

    http://megasquirt.info/
     
  7. CayoRV
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 356

    CayoRV
    Member

    Sorry, RichFox is correct, it is Algon. Typing skills and this new iPad have me a little screwed up.
     
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  8. Hightone111
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 323

    Hightone111
    Member

    I just picked up a SBC Algon setup last week. Couldn't pass it up wether I run it or not. But hope to put it to use some day!


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
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  9. There are a lot of tricks to it. I would have to ask first if you are a tuner or a driver. If you don't mind tinkering, there are a few tricks that can get you along.
    I am not in the least bit familiar with the Aljo units. Maybe a pic or two just so we can say we have seen one. LOL
     
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  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    I have a friend who runs one on a GMC powered Belly tank. Counting clicks on the nozzles didn't work. He ended up flowing each nozzle to get them set all the same. And a GMC only has three to set. I think if I had one I would change it to Hilborn nozzles. But that does make it less tuneable
     
  11. CayoRV
    Joined: Dec 19, 2008
    Posts: 356

    CayoRV
    Member

    Sounds like it's not really feasible to make one truly street able. I guess I will just keep it on the wall for now or pass it on to someone building a salt racer or gasser. Cool looking setup though for an old nailhead!
     
  12. In the real world it is far better to look dumb going fast than to look cool on the side of the road.

    Cool is way over rated.
     
  13. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I run mechanical fuel injection on the street every day, runs great and store cold reliable. VW rabbit diesel pickup. ;)
     
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  14. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Try running that VW with Hilborn injection see how great it runs.
     
  15. Sure can't beat a VW Diesel, and they run clean too!!
     
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  16. BOBCRMAN
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 846

    BOBCRMAN
    Member
    from Holly

    Built a 401 nailhead with the Hilborn tall tube system back in the late sixties. Had to tinker and usually run it fat.. Squirt it on first start, but usually would start after, if engine was warm. Installed in Anglia panel/wagon. A real beast on the street.
     
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  17. The trick to starting one is to run a small(ish) tank that will gravity feed the pump and an electric pump to feed the small tank from the main tank. No reason to go into detail as no one is going to run mechanical on the street anyway.

    They make a trim valve that runs in the cabin, it used to get used on sprinters. Not legal for drag racing because you can't have fuel in the cabin on a door slammer but for just driving and being cool it works real well. What most guys with their shit about them actually use a *Pete Jackson stepped barrel valve, that gives them two ranges or they use their shut off to trim it when they are cruising. I earlier mentioned being a tuner you have to have a feel for it to run it that way.

    There are simpler ways to run mechanical on the street, hat injection for example run through a plenum works really well as do a pair of Enderly barn doors or a Scotts Super Slot. they are not as picky when it comes to engine heat and the plenum acts as a buffer. A flying toilet also works well for the same reason.

    A while back Bill Mitchel Hard Core developed what was called an "Injectorator", it is marketed by the same people that market the Flying toilet now. it uses a Holley carb body with float bowls for and an idle circuit by passing the mid range and high range. The mid and high range are run by pills and a barrel valve with the nozzles in the runners. it is genuine mechanical injection for the street and is infinitely adjustable. Granted you give up the cool factor for performance but you just can't have everything. :rolleyes: ;)

    I would like to say something here just for plane meanness, if you wear the shoe that I am going to mention you can say that I have been mean to you and if you don't then don't put it on Cinderella. Most of the people that are going to read this thread fit into one of both of two categories, they are not tuners and should just keep taking their car to the mechanic or they don't have enough engine to be running mechanical injection anyway. :p

    * mentioned earlier the butterflies being farther away from the heads on the Pete Jackson units. he was developing mechanical for the street for his kids car. the stepped barrel valve and the butterflies away from the head were in an effort to make that happen. One of the things that gets most guys on a stack injection is that was the engine heats up to have to play with the butterfly settings because as things get warm things swell and need to be readjusted.
     
  18. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    It is possible to run a mechanical injection on the street!
    I could run a Hilborn injection on the street, but it wouldn't be plessant. It is damn hot(pun intended) so will you suffer for it.

    There are other setups that would work, but it is a less traveled road.

    Bosch made some great systems. Try Google the Bosch K-jetronic, it dosent look as cool, but it works.
    Works better them some stock carbs.
    And could be pulled from any engine with the right number of cylinders. Its an good ideer to match the cui, because it is hard to find different sized injectors.

    Or try Google the BMW 2002 TII. The ran a Kugelfischer/Bosch system, that looks a lot like a Diesel injection system from an old truck or tractor. They are almost identical, on the outside.

    And the joke with the rabbit, isn't as bad as it sounds! It should be possible to make it work. The biggest issue is that the Bosch centrifugal pump can't run on gas because it lacks lubrication, and will seize the pump up. But other then that and the high compression it should run on Gas.
    And Diesel injectors are very tunable, but will seize up from the lack of lubrication.

    But it is very much possible to run mechanical fuel injection on the street, but I'm not cool enough to run a Hilborn on the street!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetronic

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelfischer
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  19. burdie5533
    Joined: Dec 1, 2009
    Posts: 12

    burdie5533
    Member

    Starting is always an issue and the mixture needs to be changed with the weather. As mentioned earlier, there are changeable pill boxes that by turning a knob, you can adjust the fuel bypass and hence the mixture.

    I would drill out the mechanical injector bung, add a Bosch injector and mega squirt it still looks like the antique setup but it tunes to changing weather and has an enrichment t circuit for acceleration. There are many examples in the mega squirt forums.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. lucas doolin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2013
    Posts: 541

    lucas doolin
    Member

    A friend in NW Ohio late 70s had a fad T powered by a 394 Olds/Hydro with Hillborn mechanical injection. Squeeze bottle cold start but after it started ran quite well and was very streetable. He explained it took awhile to sort it out but was fine afterwards. Drove the wheels off it. Obviously, electronic injection is a huge improvement but mechanical is doable with 2% inspiration and 98% preparation.
     
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  21. Bubba1955
    Joined: Jul 8, 2013
    Posts: 463

    Bubba1955
    Member

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