CenPen does one with gears....the problem is there is always lash with gears, by the time you adjusted it tight enough it would be hard to turn. I have a Wizard chain drive box in my roadster and autocross it frequently, holding up great and got the column in a much better position for me to driv
I agree 100% This unit is made by wizard engineering, or something like that. There actually pretty cool they use a tensioner system inside, and are fail proof in my opinion. Screw NSRA their safety inspection is a joke.
If I have a need for something like that,...I'll definitely buy and install it. By now, it's got a "track record" to prove it's reliability. 4TTRUK
And that explains why, what seems like such a simple solution to me, is not being used. Thanks for the explanation.
I was kind of looking at the neighbor kids bicycles this afternoon. If a guy used a small child's bicycle for parts, he might be able to use the tire and wheel for the steering wheel. I have to start fabricating before I make it way to complicated and come up with more fantastic ideas. I do plan to check the gear lash in my steering box.
I saw a similar set up a few years ago. This one, however, was mounted externally on the firewall and the chain was not covered. It made running a steering column very easy, and I wondered why I hadn't seen it before or very much since then.
Kduke 54 Just one more fantastic idea. I am getting ready to pull the engine on my 89 Olds with one original tire. I have a chain block hoist hoist hanging from the tree closest to the trailer house. The pulleys on the hoist are notched for the chain links.Second thought this is not a good idea. I might need to put the engine back in the car some day. Forget this idea, it was not thought out completely.
If you think this chain drive setup is unsafe, You should see some of the conventional steering on some modified cars. There are many unsafe vehicles on the road with shoddy steering and brakes. Braking systems with dual master cyl. units. If you can't bottom out your dual master cyl. with no fluid in it, it won't save your ass when you need it. Ago Ago
Why don't you give it a rest Sturgis? Your antics on this thread are disruptive and unappreciated. SOME people find this interesting and the theory behind it has traditional roots. Circle track etc. That its now commercially available really has no bearing on its potential for home building...so discussing its details and construction could be very worthwhile to those people. You know...hotrodders...
Sturgis, mix up a vat of JBWeld and pour it in your keyboard and have someone duct tape your hands to your ass right next to where your head is firmly inserted. You're right! We can fix anything with that stuff.....and we didn't even need the blasting wire.
Posies also makes an offset steering box. Has anyone had a Posies box apart and know if they use gears and chains or just gears? They don't mention a chain in their ad text. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/super_slide_springs/featured_products/offset-steering-box/
Years ago I worked as a city garbageman for 4 summers. The city used Ford 1 tons that were converted to right hand drive by city mechanics with a second column and long chains behind the dash. It looked like a motorcycle chain to me. If the city lawyers thought it was okay it must be. It's not like the chain is whipping around at 1000rpm.
I don't understand why a chain drive is acceptable for a motorcycle who's engine turns 10,000 RPM and can exceed 150 MPH, but not okay for steering that maybe in an emergency gets turned two, three turns at the same speed as a Victrola plays records at? To the tune of 9 pages of assorted examples and arguments at that.
Before and after pics. New bench seat. No wooden box underneath S10 seats. Steering column much higher. Banjo steering wheel. Lokar shifter. Gauges to the side. Even gives you more leg room because column not coming straight up out of the floor. Just a better solution.
I do, but that is why you use a tensioner that tensions both lengths of the chain between sprockets . These are heavy duty industrial tensioners. However, as long as one uses end and side guards to prevent a slack chain from jumping off the sprocket, and aslong as you are willing to make adjustments to prevent slack chain , then a fixed idler tesioner would work.
I am in the position of disappointed consumer, not with the product or manufacturer, but with the hobby agency I have been a proud supporter & member of for 35 years (#63932). We are in the long process (7 years) of bringing back to life a barn/field find, keeping it low dollar, but yet a safe, comfortable, long distance hauler. Above my work bench is a printed listing of the 23 point NSRA safety inspection check list. During our build, anytime I accomplished one of those aspects, I would check it off, working toward the goal of having that sticker on the lower right corner as a badge of honor that 'This car was built with safety in mind'. We thoroughly researched every item outside of our budget prior to purchase. Imagine my chagrin (if you could) when I found out no matter how well the vehicle is constructed, inclusion of the STEER CLEAR' will not pass the safety inspection. I could have spent twice the cost on double U-joints, shafts & hiem joints/pillows to get around the engine, but it would have looked 'Rube Goldberg'. The irony is that it would have passed Tech. Let me be clear about my position, I support the NSRA Safety inspections while I know many do not. I could take the inspection (and fail) 50 times and still not be upset with the Tech guys. However this position that 'higher up's have taken and instructed the Techs to adhere to defies understanding. It is one thing to decline a home concocted chain steering, that would truly be understandable. A DOMESTICALLY produced & well engineered product should be the exception. NSRA stops short of calling it unsafe, but says any item fitting this category is not acceptable. Does anyone remember the original Mustang II architecture came on the 70-71 Pinto, and that the connector between the steering column & the rack was a CABLE? DOT didn't have a problem with that (but I do). On one hand, NSRA doesn't want to come out and say "NO" to any home fabrication but really can't do so because that is the backbone of this incredible hobby. On the other hand, they will stop short of saying a particular product is unsafe, so they APPEAR to leverage a blanket policy on the volunteer Techs who only want to serve their fellow hobbyists. We have purchased the STEER CLEAR from SPEEDWAY, a proud and long time supporter of NSRA (as well as IDIDIT). I wouldn't put my family in any vehicle I didn't feel safe it, and I am proud to say I have faith in the WIZARD FABRICATION product, I'm just disappointed in the Organization I am still proud to be a member of. I really feel sorry for the Techs out there who (like me) are caught in the middle of it all. Is it safe or not? Is it politics or personalities?
Someone wrote in this thread previously that NSRA pointed to the problem of and expense of rewriting 4000 manuals that they issued to their techs. It seems easy enough to me for them to post a rule change and allow techs correct their own manuals. Owners of chain-drives could also print out the rule change and show it to any tech that didn't get the message.
I have read the post about the expense you referred to. I cannot vouch for it's validity IF that is true or here say. If however it is true (and that's an IF), one quick email (from atop of the NSRA food chain) of clarification/acceptance would be seem to rectify this issue. After all, we're not talking about some off shore piece of bootleg crap here. jmo
I had the nsra safety check done [and passed all w/flying colors] the first 4 years my car was on the road ...what a joke...... got better things to do w/my time .. dave
'Stronger'? Chain is only as strong as its weakest link. As far as Harley Davidson goes, they have now eclipsed their chain drives with Gilmer tooth belts. (you know, the 'Timing Belts' on cars that you'd BETTER replace every 60K?) Gimme the gears. Screw the chains.
As long as NSRA's inspections are voluntary I don't care if they don't accept rubber tires. From my experience, safety engineering in industry generally tries to multiply expected shock loads and factor in redundancy. Is there any engineering behind their rules or do they just wing it? I realize that there is no redundancy in the typical steering U-joint set up but it has worried me at times.
Belts on motorcycles are indeed smother than chain. Because of the inherent design that uses linear cording that doesn't stretch (any appreciable amount) they do not need the frequent adjusting as chain. They are also much cleaner. I believe Gates is the main supplier to that industry, but GY may be a player now. Another product that may work in this steering application is Goodyear's Eagle Belts. These carry a great load for the relative size. A big advantage is that the pulleys do not need flanges at all; however, the alignment of the pulleys and centerline distance is just as critical if not more so than a roller chain/sprocket setup would be. They are available in polyurethane; much more oil resistant and tougher than rubber. They don't have a "cogging" feel like std HTD or timing belts either; as the v-grooves are much like a helical gear set in that there are always more than one tooth engagement. According to GY's product information, the belts maintain 98% efficiency one company selling them.....(there are many more) http://www.newenglandbelting.com/GoodyearEagle_TimingBelts.asp A person may want to consult with GY Engineering before attempting to use this.
If I'm not mistaken a chain has less friction than either gears or belts as each engagement is with a roller. I've had many Harleys, stroked and otherwise over the years as well as 3 Boss Hoss bikes, a ZZ3, a ZZ4 and a 502/502. Some bikes had belts, some chains, some were converted from one to the other. I found no difference in smoothness from chain to belt. Especially on the primary chain. Those with chain tensioners never needed adjusting. If I were designing my own offset chain drive steering system I would use two single chains which would give the system redundancy and a chain tensioner just to make sure everything stayed deep in the sprokets no matter how much vibration or impact. I think the belt drive hype is more about EPA noise restrictions and cost than smoothness considering they had to address valve train noise due to EPA. Damned I hate the EPA!
Many years ago now similar units were used for RHD conversions out of Hong Kong, save trying to locate a suitable RHD steering box. Quicker conversion with less fabrication and headaches. Nothing worse than a car that drove like a POS due to poor geometry.
Same down here in Australia mgtstumpy, used to be a lot of American cars converted to right hand drive using similar setups to leave the steering box and all the steering geometry in tact, hence saving time and cost.
Yeah, Rube Goldberg engineering is better than messed up geometry.. Maybe you guys should look at this nifty V-belt setup. Probably wont hurt your fingers as much as a chain, when you get them stuck in it...
Digging up this old thread, because I read through all of it last week and got to thinking about the conditions under which designing around a chain from the start would constitute a net advantage. What I can think of: 1. It'd allow for running all kinds of controls down the steering column. Personally I like the idea of advance/retard and idle speed on the steering wheel, as a lot of pre-WWII cars had. (Especially the latter would be something I'd use on my DD all the time: a lot of the time it isn't cold enough to keep the choke on for long after starting, i.e. the car bogs down on the over-rich mixture, but it's cold enough that the engine dies if I don't keep a third foot on the accelerator for the first few blocks. It'd be convenient just to raise the idle speed a bit until the engine is warm.) Many cars of the era also had the headlight switch on the steering wheel boss, and it remained stationary when you turned the wheel. But that is only an option if 2. The chain arrangement allows the elimination of all the U-joints in the steering. If both the input (column) and output (steering gear input) are perpendicular to the plane of the chain, and there is a proper facility to adjust the chain tension, you could have less lost motion than with a column with a U-joint or two in it. There might be fairly clear advantages in a steering box a few inches ahead of your toes; I am trying to figure out if there would be any definite advantage in a rack and pinion under the floor, a few inches behind my heels, operating a Foose/tractor-style dual drag link set-up. Given the column angle and the 75° pinion angle on the rack, the rack would have to sit diagonally in plan, 16.3° off the east-west axis. All hypothetical at this stage.
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