Technical Anybody know if a 331 Chrysler Marine Hemi circulates water from the ocean (salt) thru the block?

An early but flat back 331 Chrysler Marine Hemi is for sale near me. I know the block has high nickel content, but wondering if it would be a "safe" buy or all eaten out on the inside from the salt.
Here are some pictures.
Just wondering.
Somebody knows.
Thanks in advance,
Tony

 

Depends on whether it had a heat exchanger or not. It was common for direct cooling in smaller boats, but bigger vessels often had heat exchangers, so no salt water. If that's the engine you're talking about, it doesn't look like it had salt water exposure. RH or LH rotation? Could get spendy if it's backwards...

 

like Brian said , you have to know the boat it came out of , like my old hole in the water that ate my wallet ( boat= break out another twenty ) , it had both , it had a skin heat exchanger on the hull for salt water with a crank driven aux pump and a intake/outlet port for freshwater running , my uncles uses a heat exchanger in the boat and had a aux pump that ran off the crank that pumped sea water thru it . and like Brian said you have to know what rotation is as if its reverse your looking at replacing the cam , starter , oil pump and distributor and maybe the timing drive .

 

Hello Tony, Mickey C here. An actual Chrysler marine engine and not a converted car motor
usually draws water from a thru hull fitting directly into the internals of the motor and exhaust manifolds. I have seen some that used a heat exchanger or a
so called keel cooler that used sea water to cool fresh water. and this will keep corrosive salt water from the engine internals. I happen to have one and it used sea water. Also be aware that an actual
Chrysler Marine motor features a different machine surface at the crankshaft snout to drive
a gear system for water pumps fuel pump and generator as well as the marine drive gear This crank will not readily take a timing chain and timing gear arrangement as used on car motors. I am not sure if it can be easily adapted but have been told it is not a simple fix. These motors sat in the boat with the crank snout facing the rear of the vessel. I just wanted to point this out to you in case you are planning to use the crank as well as the block and heads. I would think you would have to boil out the block and have it sonic tested for thickness to be sure if it sound

 

We were just talking about that on a "reverse Flow" thread. To reverse turn an engine I believe you only need a direct gear drive for the cam and a backwards turning starter. So, I don't see how buying a reverse turning Hemi would be spendy.

 

rule of thumb starter on engine side of the fly wheel= normal rotation, starter on bellhousing side= opposite rotation.

 

I had a 318 in a houseboat which used a heat exchanger for the engine(closed cooling) and an aux pump which pumped lake water thru the manifolds. when I winterized I only had to pump anti freeze thru the aux pump and manifolds as the engine ran anti freeze year round.

 

not always they do make reverse rotation starters for standard mounting

maybe on this motor but most marine engines they are standard starters wired different , I loved it when I got a mercury /johnson I/o in with a no start/ backfiring situation and the first thing we look for is the starter motor and often find a automotive unit in there, because the owner was cheap and didn't know ..

 

You'd need a new cam, as the valve timing would be opposite. And I'm guessing an oil pump as well.

 

I want you to think about valve timing. The exhaust closes and just before it closes the intake starts opening. So if you wanted the engine to run backwards, the intake would be closing and the exhaust opening. Not good. But if you go to a direct gear drive, you have reversed the cams rotation. It's back to rotating the correct direction. The same clockwise direction it would rotate in a conventional car engine. Since the cam is rotating the correct direction there is nothing wrong with the standard distributor or oil pump. It's something you need to visualize. Maybe before you open the first beer.

 

Marine reverse timing set (crank turns counter clockwise, cam turns clockwise):

Regular, or non-reverse marine timing set (crank turns clockwise, cam turns clockwise):

SBC shown, but others are similar. You will note, the cam, and everything driven from it, still turn the same direction, in either case.

 

A hemi timing set is $79.95+s/h.

 

You could stick a boroscope in there, or get the seller to let you have it checked out at a good machine shop, at your expense.

 

But I would like to know just how you know that this block has a high nickel content as that has been a mystery for century's. Have you broken the code? A1- H1? These are only casting plants and all got the same scrap metal to melt into engine blocks. It is an old myth.











these are just manufacturing

 

The SBC guys have a firm grip on the 010 "high-nickel" block myth too. Everybody wants to have something that the other guys don't have. When they don't, the truth often becomes a casualty.

 

Yep I've searching for the bigfoot or such for decades with no luck. I actually delivered scrap metal to these foundry's and cannot tell you about the difference of the two.

 

WOW! I knew you guys would have all the info I would need!
I have learned enough to know this engine is not for me!
It is available for sale so maybe one of you can take advantage of it.
It is where you would expect it to be!
It's in North Jersey.
The hi nickel contentent came from the ad, not me.
He claims it is an "M45S Marine block".
I am not connected in any way to the guy.
Good luck, Thanks to all!
Tony

 

Not that it has anything to do with the original question - I may be missing something here, but wouldn't the whole valve train / starter issue be moot - unless the engine is returned to standard rotation, there's no way to make a standard rotation drivetrain (trans, etc) work.

 

If it is reverse rotation, it can be returned to standard rotation with a timing set, and a starter.

From the picture, it's missing the timing set anyway.

 

Gimpy and I were just reacting to Flyingbrian, Stimpy and badshifter who are repeating the myth about counter rotating engines being all different from clockwise engines. I see this repeated on the HAMB often. And it's not true as anybody who thinks about it can realize. Has nothing to do with the OPs question. Just a peeve of mine. Along with the myths about reverse flow engines. people repeating what somebody told them with out thinking about it. I will say that the water holes in the front of the block don't look like an engine that has had extended salt water cooling.

 

Hey Rich,
That's what I thought.
But also, the lack of a water pump was troubling.
In any case I hope somebody can take advantage
of this. The guy wants $1750 for it so it seems like an OK deal
for somebody that understands it.
I'm sure that somebody is here!

 

The water pump might be a problem, the inlets into the marine block are in a different spot. I've never tried to go looking for one, they might be available, but the normal water pump or the big block chevy water pump conversion won't work.
On a normal engine the water inlets are much higher closer to the deck and spaced further apart.
It might have adjustable rockers and I've seen those intakes go for several hundred on ebay, if that motor is rebuild and ready to run it is a bargan. I would check with hot heads, I bet thye have what you'd need for the front of the engine.

 

Is the water pump mount the same as a '51-'53 Chrysler? The one with the cast iron front cover. I used to have an Algon aluminum front cover for an early Chrysler. I thought it would fit a DeSoto also, but maybe not.

 

I think that myth is perpetrated by the marine shops to suck the owners into spending huge money on 'special marine only' parts. Sure, there's some special bits (Coast Guard approved stuff, some cooling system parts, and external accessories) but most is just repackaged standard parts. I had a neighbor who attempted a home rebuild on a SBF with reverse rotation and was not happy when I showed him that the 'reverse rotation' rear main seal they insisted he needed to prevent oil leaks and bought for $50 was identical (down to the part number molded in) to one out of a generic 289/302 gasket set and more money than I was paying for the complete gasket set at the time...

 

Hey oj,
Ad says it has adjustable rocker arms, automotive exhaust manifolds, and
oil filter housing not in pictures.
Somebody might get a bargain here!

 

I've seen those rockers alone go for nearly a thousand. I wonder if they made a typo on the price. Those things are terrible expensive to build, a set of stainless intake valves are a couple hundred, a cam is three hundred - oh you want lifters? that'll be a little more, pistons? cheapassed junk castings are almost five hundred, the crank in that motor is six hundred (can't use the marine crank I don't think).

 

I was told that if its a marine crank it must be changed to be a street motor. Sometimes the valve covers are dimpled but don't have adj rockers underneath. For a 331 I think its on the high side for price.