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Projects New here, Model A Questions

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 0ldhippie, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    I totally get the original part and would try to allow any changes to easily be undone but I bought it because it wasn't really a collector or restoration candidate in my mind. But I've never really been a purest...
     
    Jet96 and kiwijeff like this.
  2. Cut the bitch up and make it your own. let the next turkey worry about undoing what has been done to it.
     
    kiwijeff and pat59 like this.
  3. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    Yes complete backing plates with shoes, springs & wheel cyls. I think like '56 truck with 5 on 5 1/2 circle. Just saw pictures, will diffidently call before ordering! Really want to keep stock 21s. If I stick with the stock motor I saw an Alum. bell-housing to mount T5, pedals & wishbone. Also saw a torque-tube adapter for the T5? Lots of stuff swirling around in my head....
     
  4. Your wires won't work with the F100 brakes. If I'm remembering correctly V-8 brakes 40-48 and F1 brakes 48-52 will work with the wire wheels. If i'm remembering correctly the F100 drums won't fit in the wire wheels. Of course on this I could be totally wrong as I've never done the swap myself
     
  5. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    Thanks, More stuff to check out...
     
  6. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I think even running later 16" wires, that a spacer is recommended for running any later drums. I think you're correct on the F100's too. If that's what you gotta run, get some later steelies.
     
  7. I definitely like the vehicle. I am not sure if its the patina, aura, charm but whatever, I like it. It would be easy to go too far and ruin it. The 1940-48 Ford brakes and original wire wheels with adapters should work considering the HP and weight. The reproduction Lincoln brakes from MT Car Products (probably what is being sold by Sacramento Ford Parts) will give you slightly better brakes. The battery box master cylinder mount looks good but be careful some of them are too flimsy. You would probably benefit from a 3.54 rear end. Warm up the engine sightly and you are ready to go. How about putting together a detailed plan and posting it for comments?

    Charlie Stephens
     
  8. Something else I just thought of with the T5 set up. Your going to need enough motor to push that brick in 5th gear. Also don't forget with juice brakes you still need the hubs and new bearings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  9. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    Thanks, I really like the look/feel of it too (why I bought it) but really want to drive it (not work on it all the time) and have fun. It wasn't running so I figured I'd just swap in a Ranger, or something running gear and brakes. But I did get it started (minor ignition issues but now bigger carb issue) and the basic motor seems sound so thinking about warming it over?
    Sorry, I don't have a detailed plan. No Plan to do much with body and want to keep the wheels. Money is an issue and there is a running 4cyl/5 speed S10 on craigs list for $400. Not too hard to fab some mounts and rewire it. If I did the S10 rear I'd just have to worry about front brakes and pedals. I always seem to over build stuff so I'm not too worried about weak mounts, etc. Lots more money in making stock engine (intake/carb/exhaust/cam/head/distributor) and running gear (some kind of overdrive, even those 3.54 gears are big money) work for no real practical gain other than the KOOL factor. Nothing wrong with kool, but I'm kind'a too old to worry about it much. Most folks these days could care less what is under the hood/body. I'm really interested in what you folks have to say as I don't know much of anything about this old stuff. Just doing research now.
     
  10. If you can drive it as is I would suggest you do that for awhile. How are the brakes? Are you sure you don't have 3.54 gears in it already? Just about any gear ratio in the rear end is ok if you don't plan to spend a lot of time on the freeway. Also put a post on fordbarn.com to see how the other half lives.

    Charlie Stephens
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  11. Your going to do all that work to put a $400 motor and tranny in you car? That setup isn't going to just hop in there. How much is the new radiator going to cost? Your old A one won't cool that motor.. Come up with a plan and stick to it. You claim you don't care about cool factor but you bought a car with lots of cool factor, Model A's are not meant to do what your talking about unless your want to build a full on rod out of it, which isn't cheap either.
     
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  12. B Ramsey
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 646

    B Ramsey
    Member


    Because other drivers respect you? they are assholes. I enjoy driving stock model A's or whatever, everyone can go around and get over it.
     
  13. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,334

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Olehippie Nice ride and different. Different is OK and bangers rule.
    X2 on the cast iron drums and flathead ted's floaters. I can lock up all 4 wheels on the Cabby as well as other A's I've had with proper set up mechanical brakes. Stock steel drums expand when they get hot and the brakes 'fade' as a result. The other part of the brake formula is getting all the linkage with the geometry back to the way it was new which means eliminating all looseness and making sure linkages are proper length. I'll mention Ford Barn too for guidance on mechanical brakes. Staying with mechanical brakes lets you run the wheels you have.
    Get it running well with the stock engine. Make sure the brakes at the top of their game and drive it for awhile to see it a Model A is really what you like then take it step by step would be my suggestion before planting both feet firmly in mid air and having a torn down project in the garage that you can't drive and enjoy.

    Good Luck
    Larry
     
  14. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,390

    Squablow
    Member

    Tiny has good advice. You might spend $1000 and 100 labor hours to put that S10 drivetrain in there, just to avoid maintenance and the cost of parts on the A motor? The A would be less work and money to get you on the road, and you'd be driving much sooner, IMO.

    I judge from your responses that you've never driven a stock engined A before? Try it first, you'll change your mind.
     
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  15. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    I do plan on running as is if can get it running decent for little money. I have driven stock A models and did not like the poor cruising speed and double clutching? Nothing I want to put up with in daily driving. I have also done lots of strange engine/trans/axle swaps (mostly on 4 wheelers). I did docent at the Calif. Auto Musume and met about every kinda car guy out there. I am a little surprised of all the "keep it stock" advise I'm getting on a hot rod site? While I really thank your good will and help, My original question was if a stock motor can support 70+ hp. That somehow got lost around the second or third post? I really just want to get back to it. Thanks.
     
  16. Hotrodmyk
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 2,302

    Hotrodmyk
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    Get the book written by Jim Brierly "4-bangers and me" Lots of good info in it on modifying the banger. Fordbarn and the banger thread here, all good.
     
  17. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,172

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

    Some good advice here. I have have Flathead Ted floaters and cast iron drums and once adjusted correctly, easily lock up all 4 wheels of my pickup. My pickup was making about 60HP with a standard bottom end (babbit) without a problem, and from what I have read, people have made a lot more power on the stock bottom end. You just need to make sure your engine is healthy. Making more power will obviously put more stress on the engine. Jim Brierley's book is an entertaining and informative read. Well worth the money if you decide to stick with the banger.
     
  18. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,172

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

  19. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,271

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Here's the best advice I can give.
    Sell it!
    Get a late 30s to mid 60s car. From 39 to 53 Ford V8s can run in traffic pretty well. Stovebolt Chevys of the same era tend to like 45-50MPH. Now they can run faster but they need to be set up right to do so.
    Oldsmobile Rockets from 48 are pretty much modern cars. Just about all makes from 55 up are viable on today's roads.....to a point.
     
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  20. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,474

    A Rodder
    Member

    1) a little higher compression head
    2) FS ignition distributor w more mechanical advance
    3) downdraft intake w a 97
    4) some kinda headers

    You need all that to get more power to push that brick at high speeds at lower rpm. To accomplish the low rpm part-

    5) 3.54 gears
    6) 7.50 16 rear tires.

    That combo will work but you will really stretch 2 ND gear before you can hit 3rd

    OR

    buy a Mitchell splitter / O.D. box.

    AND consider the clings adapter and use a v8 trans w better gear splits / no double clutching.

    I've had 20 A's.....I've used all of what I posted on different combinations of them.

    The mechanical brakes can lock up and stop well, but the key is the fact they do fade and braking is heavily diminished.

    For true daily freeway driving really consider early ford hydraulic brakes so you can keep your wires, 21" or 16"

    The part for me that sucks with stock ish A's is the trans....it not "hard" it just keeps it to antiquey for me. Rowing thru a 39 box will make that banger "feel" alot more powerful.
     
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  21. akoutlaw
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 1,258

    akoutlaw
    Member

    I'm not either' but to me that would be cool to fill the back with milk cans & paint a dairy name on it & have fun. :)
     
  22. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Hey.
    That's a nice truck/van you got there.
    Regarding your engine, you can come a long way with a Banger, and up to a certin point it's mostly bolt - on, but bottom end work will cost you. But small upgrade to transmission and brakes makes a lot of change.

    Manyoldcars on here runs a very nice banger with a lions head and twin SU, that's an cool setup.
    I would agree with a lot of guys on brakes, the stock mechanical can be made to work, but on a DD I would run self adjusting hydraulic brakes!
    There is so many ways to do it, so pick one. But 1939 wide-5 all around dosent look bad on a truck. B-)

    And Transmission wise, there is a few threads about running volvo 4 speed m40 behind 4 banger and flathead. That would give you a better feel and full synchro. A OD in the Torque Tube gives you and good ratio to choice from.
    Or you could go all in and swap to open rear end on your banjo and install an Volvo m45 4 speed and OD and get the best of both. This will get the best of two worlds and pro long the life of your banger.
    I belive that modern distributor will give you a good drivability over stock mech ignition.

    But it comes down to is you will go true your DD to keep stock on the top, or go modern and use your evenings relaxing.
     
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  23. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    And FYI an Volvo B18 and B20 (1.8 and 2.0 liter red pushrod banger) has a distributor that runs Counter clockwise, and is easily adapted to an Model A.

    They came frome about 1960 and till 1976. That came in PV 544, PV 210, 121, 122S, 123GT, 142,144, 145, 242, 244 and 245. Further more they came In volvo Penta aq 115 and aq 130.

    If you go to swap meets they look just like an VW, except volvo is counter clockwise and VW are clockwise. Both are made by bosch, so they share the same cap and rotor.

    You can but them online, fairly easy too find and they are availible nre with break less ignition that look like stock, but unpainted. Can be rattle canned black to look stock.
    They comes with SU carbs that can be set up for feeding a Banger, and parts are widely available online and they can be jetted up with out much parts, mostly tools and time?
     
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  24. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    Thanks! Good info and links. What mods do you have and what is your real world cruising speed?
     
  25. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member


    From what I'm looking at something around a 6.5 head is what I'm thinking of.
    I do like the look of 97carb but the pinto type holley seems a better design?
    The FS dist. seems a popular choice.
    Like the look of the cast headers but a 4-1 tube may work better.
    Some kind of cam regrind regrind??
    I would think those mods would make the stocker livable for me, if it will hold together.

    I agree on the trans being a pain. I like the idea of a V8 trans but for the price of adapter and trans a T5 seems like a more practical choice? No need for a $2k Mitchell OD. First two things to get rid of is the stock trans and carb in my mind. I really need to keep the mods under $5k too.
     
  26. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    :D:D
     
  27. 0ldhippie
    Joined: Aug 16, 2015
    Posts: 55

    0ldhippie
    Member

    I've had '50 & '54 fords along with a '56pu and thought about a '57 or 67 rancharo but like the look & feel of this A. But if ya know of a nice '56 Roadmaster convertible for around $10k let me know...
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
    Jet96 likes this.
  28. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

  29. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,172

    waxhead
    Member
    from West Oz

    I cruise at 60MPH because I have no need to go on the freeway in my pickup. I have a Snyders 6:1 iron head, reground touring cam, counterbalance crank, insert bearings, weber carb, 4 into 1 headers, Mitchell synchro gearbox, FSI distributor, 3.54 gears. Running 16" KH wires with 700x16 tyres.

    Just bought a Lion Speed 3 cast iron head (6.5:1), new Bill Stipe 340 touring cam and a Stromberg 97 with Ansen intake. Will install these soon, while I wait for one of Tod's new Winfield cast iron heads. From talking to Dennis Piranio, it appears the LS 3 heads have a new combustion chamber design similar to the modifications Dennis used to make to these heads. Not sure when this change was made. Will be interested to see how this goes. I think there may still be a few LS 3 heads available, but not sure how many. The LS 3 head and Snyder 6:1 (and 5.5:1) are the only cast iron heads in production that I know of.

    I think the aluminium Thomas head is still available 6.7:1, but I do know that Tod Buttermore is doing some work on the design at the moment. See link below for more info on this head.
    http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/thomas-high-compression-head

    I am not sure if the Aluminium Winfield heads are still being produced, someone on here will be able to chime in and let you know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    volvobrynk likes this.
  30. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,474

    A Rodder
    Member

    I like your budget, should be doable.

    The 6.1-1 Simmons High Speed Head is what I've ran. Not reproduced, and cast iron.

    4 to header by Reds Headers worked well on one of mine. That one had a model A "B" police head, fs, 3.54 gears, 94 carb. It was a,B motor so being balanced made cruising at 60-63 enjoyable.

    You will keep getting rerouted to using early stuff compared to the late model stuff, because, of the Forum you are on. In the end you will be happy you did it more traditionally I'm sure.

    That being said I do have an S10 trans that will be put behind a banger at some point but the trans will be an open drive banjo.
     

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