School me on this Halibrand Quick Change

Found this Halibrand quick change rear end. What model is this and what years was it built? i've never worked with the Halibrands, so the more info the better.

Appreciate the help.

-scott noteboom

 

Scott, looks like a 301 Roadster q/c - this is the big car champ-style q/c used in sprint/champ cars as opposed to the smaller V8 or midget rear that fit the early Ford axle housings. Appears to have the large side bells often found on short track or stock cars. Can't tell but does it have floater axles and hubs? Probably has a diff or locker in it as opposed to a spool (yay!!) so should be useable on the street - from the axles out you may want to consider replacing the hardware for something more street car friendly.

Steve

 

Anyway to reconfigure these so that they can take Ford axle housings so that it can fit in a model a?

Also does anyway know what years this style quick change was built?

-scott noteboom

 

Halibrand made narrow side bells / adapters that had the proper 10 bolt pattern for early ford axle housings to bolt to - you see them on eBay every once in a while. This qc was made in both Culver City and Torrance for sure - maybe at other locations as well. The Culver City rears would be the oldest and would have been used back in the front motor Indy car days circa late 1950's/early 1960's before the switch to rear engine/exotic transaxles. Check for any casting info on the case itself.

Steve

 

Model AA big truck drivers side bell bolts on w/o adapter...Now watch the price of the bells go up

 

What will you have to pay to acquire it? If it isn't too much, then why not take a chance and see what you can get out of it. As most noted, the big 'Champ' Q.C. was designed for bigger side bells, a different ring/pinion, etc..

There are some good threads on the HAMB specifically about the Champ - and also about the pain in the rear it is to find readily available parts. I opted for an early Frankland big Q.C. - with an aftermarket differential from DPI. The nice thing about the big Q.C.s (especially Frankland and Winters) is that there are all sorts of parts available - with a wide variety of differentials.

My DPI diff is setup for 31-spline Ford axles, so I'll run the Big Ford style axle tubes and standard non-floating Ford stuff from the axle tubes on out. You probably don't need a full-floater rear, so changing things on the outside gives you a ton of options for axles, backing plates, brake styles, wheels, etc..

Another neat trick is that you can have the splined end of one axle setup so that you can put a short splined 'plug' on one axle. The plug is splined like the rest of the axle. This plug will 'lock-up' the rear (like a spool) - and can be used at the 1/4 mile drags. Yes, you have to pull the axle to add the plug, but it beats taking the whole rear apart and replacing the diff with a spool.

 

This looks to me like a Grand National set up. Thia will probably have 5 on 5 bolt pattern with 5/8 wheel studs. Axles will be splined on both ends and can be taken out without taking anything off but the little 3 bolt cap inside the center of the wheel. Whether 12 spline or 31 you will be able to find a Detroit Locker to replace the probable spool . If everything checks out to please you, you can buy a couple of new steel (or aluminum) tubes that are easy to replace and have a clean straight housing to build with.

 

You're exactly right on the housings. All you'll need is some .1875 wall, 3" DOM tubing and some new weld-on axle bearing carriers and/or snouts and you're good to go. If you want to stay full-floater, then you can buy the tubes with the GN snouts on them, or almost any other. You can even order the axle tubes and axles to length. The only thing to think about is that while this is all doable, you need to be prepared to sink somewhere between $1000 - 1500 in the thing (especially if you need to put a new diff in it). I've got close to $3k in mine - with polishing and all that crap.

This is why lots of guys run standard 9" Ford stuff -- lots cheaper out of the gate . . . but not as flexible or cool as far as I'm concerned.

 

The reason i mentioned era originally built is because im trying to hit my "era correct" 1948-51 era Bonneville Roadster project spot on (my "Famous in Peace, Distinguished in Battle" flathead Caddy powered roadster project.) Thus, if this particular model was built late 50's, i'll pass on it for this project. If so, if anyone wants this rear end-- i might be able to get it for a good price as part of a package deal with something else im buying. Lemme know.

Along those lines, i believe it was the "Model A" type Halibrand Q/C rear end that was released in the late 40's-- and that i should be looking for-- right? Please share if you have pics / further info.

I love the quick change rear end, but need to be era correct for this project.

Thanks for all the help,

-scott noteboom

 

Scott,
Probably the most correct rear end would be a V8 Halibrand with early Ford housings. Do your thing cause it needs to please only you.

 

Yeah that is not what you want.... the new cyclone re pop rear ends are pretty close to the og ones or you can get a rodsville and a grinder and make it look like an older halibrand, then get a repop culver city cover just like everyone else does... good luck

 

ask 40vert. he's a wiz at these rears

 

FWIW- Not all the early lsr cars used the early closed tube Ford housings, some opted for the live axle Q/C.

 

I have told this story before, but I will repeat anyway. In the 90s I bought a 1932 Ford RPU which had been in storage for many years. In the bed there was an old axle - upon my casual inquiry to the owner if I could have 'that old axle' as part of the deal, since it was in the truck and obviously felt it belonged there anyway, he guffawed and said "You know exactly what that is, and unfortunately for you so do I!!" This was the original prototype Halibrand QC which had been welded by Ted Halibrand on a Model A rear end housing in late 1946. It was part of a ratty old sprint car.

The Model A castings are usually marked Type 101, while the V8s are Type 201 and the Champ is Type 301. The change gears interchange on the 101 and 201, but the side bell PCD is 9" on the 101 and 9.25" on the 201. The 201 has a protruding snout where the torque tube bolts up, whereas the 101 is flush with the case. I believe the 201 housing is a little wider than the Model A/Midget. As I recall, the Model A or Midget QC takes the earlier type 1928-1934?? Ford passenger axle housings and the V8 takes the 1935-1948 passenger axle housings. If this is wrong, please feel free to correct me - as if you wouldn't come down like a pack of starving wolves at the slightest opportunity!

Model A / Midget would be correct for 1948-51. I am not sure when the V8 first appeared but think it may have been a little later.

If anybody needs any measurements, I have both types of Halibrand center sections and Ford axle housings buried somewhere and can undertake an archaeological expedition to excavate and measure them.

 

No, its 38-52 3/4 and 1 ton truck

 

Thanks much, this is hugely valuable to me. Now i know what i'm looking for-- Model A / Midget QC that has 101 in the casting-- either that, or i'll take that one that was in the back of the '32 RPU

Thus, I assume the rear end in my pic above is the Champ, type 301. Again if anyone wants this, lemme know what you're willing to pay and i'll try to pick it up for you.

Viva La Hamb.

-scott noteboom

 

Here are some comparative photos of V8 & Model A/Midget Halibrands.

Length (excluding rear cover): V8 15.875", Model A 13.25"
Width of banjo: V8 3.75", Model A 3.25"
Side bell PCD: V8 9.25", Model A 9.0"

Castings: V8 201 Model A 101

As I previously mentioned, the V8 has a protruding flange where the torque tube mounts whereas the Model A/Midget does not. Overall about the only common parts are the change gears and the end cover. Note also that the rear casting of the Model A/Midget which houses the change gears is considerably shorter than on the V8. Use Model A thru 1934 passenger axle tubes on the Model A/Midget and 1935-1948 passenger car for the V8. Please feel free to correct this info if I have missed by a bit. Sorry about the crappy photos - I suspect that my camera is on its way out as both the autofocus and macro functions are sporadic.

 

minor correction...model a and v8 use DIFFERENT change gears. 1 inch 6 spline for the a, 1 3/8 six spline for the v8

 

LOADS of good info in this comprehensive thread...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148241

 

Weasel, did you miss out on the prototype of Hot Rodding history?

 

Indeed I did - ater buying the 1932 Roadster pickup, I did not have the cash to buy a whole sprint car project to get the Halibrand protoype....

 

how mush power/torq can these axles take ?
i take in the time there ued on indy cars the maximum output was about 350/400 hp

 

Hi to all from sunny Australia!!! I have a 301 roadster quickie that needs some parts ie main shaft, pinion. and seeing as though its actually fitted to a historic race car we would also be interested in getting a complete spare unit.. My main question is where can i get parts for these? are there after market brands that are making parts to suit? do other brand internals fit? etc....etc... Great thread and forum btw! great info! thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

I can help you.
PM me with a list of what you need.

 

What the hell is this # say Halibrand experts ? I can't tell from the picture. 301 ? 303 ? 305 ? 307 ? I can't find any grouping of numbers 30anything other then 301 online ... did they have a 305 or 307 ? Yeah it's a dumb question, but I'm not standing next to it ... and this picture sucks. Anyone ?

 

My guess is 307 with a casting blemish on bottom leg..

 

Hmmm ... nothing on a 307. Thanks Seb. I'm leery anyway ... cheaper to go newer, but it would be cool to piece one of these together. Maybe this guy will give me better info/picture today.

 

305 ... says it's a 305 stamp. What the heck' !! I can't find sh#t about that stamp either !!

Anyone ? What the hell is a Halibrand Roadster 305 center section ? It is a 12 bolt unit, but nowhere on the internet is there a mention of a 305 stamping. Maybe someone has a Fred Flintstone tablet somewhere with this # chipped into it ?

 

Interesting, 300 series means it is a champ setup, as opposed to 200 being v-8 and 100 being model A. If you want it ID'd show some full pictures, anything wierd with the casting like the ring gear on the wrong side?

 

Blow up of the "blown up" part. Supposedly pulled from running car. Obviously repaired from a not so running car. Probably not worth messing with. Still can't find 305 information though.