Guys, just wanting some , what would you do input. I blew the engine in my 28 roadster so I pulled it out. I also have a v8 trans to install and quick change rear end so I decided to go ahead and pull the body and work on the frame. But before this happened... The rear end I lowered by removing some leaves. Once I got it low enough where I wanted it to be there was not enough support and the Radius rods bottomed out on the frame when hitting bumps and the rear end hit the spring u-bolts. Also when my kids were in the rumble, the frame was bottomed out just sitting. I'm thinking my best option while I've got it stripped is to do the tardel step in the rear and put some leaves back in to get a more solid ride. I don't feel like I'm wanting it too low, 3.5-4 inches from tire to fender radius. Is the frame step necessary? Also considered flattening about an inch of the front crossmember to get the front a little lower. Thoughts appreciated
For the life of me, I can't remember where I found it, but I used the Tardel book for the location of the cut (scribed it) and then (this is the puzzle) I sliced the frame at a 45* angle, top to bottom with the angle going from back towards the front. Then lifted the rear section, realigned the scribe marks and kept the same wheel base. The idea being that it gave a better bearing surface after welding. Added boxing plates and fish plates on the sides. What you have to remember is that the bottom of the frame has a taper which changes the rear X-member vertical alignment slightly. RB
I knew I had seen that done before...I was thinking it was in the tardel book but I looked this morning and that wasn't it.
Would like to figure that out for my scrapbook. Looked in all of my library...nothing, but I know I didn't invent it in my dreams. Just seemed way easier to line up than a straight cut.
Left side front rear ------/----- /------------ ----/----- equals --------/---/------- ----------/ Have to use your imagination.
Tardel aside if I wanted it lower and it was bottoming out I would step it. Verne has got a good handle on it so the way he does it is a good idea but getting back to the problem you can step it or put helper springs on the shocks stepping it is your better solution.
Because of the taper on the bottom edge of an A frame, I'd do a straight up and down cut. Add small sections of some box tube on the 45's, and a boxing plate over the whole area on the inside. When all the welds are ground it will look smooth and be plenty strong. Make sure your drop is the exact same measurement as the wood block is high, and you should have a very easy job reassembling things. Just a little trim needed on the inside edge of the subrail.
I did the Tardel step on my avatar and a 30 Sport coupe I'm building now, lowers it about 3" but will interfere with the rumble seat. Raises the rear cross member which causes you to raise the floor.
Think about your rumble seat if you "Tardel" step it. It intrudes into that area big time and you may lose the use of it. That's why I didn't.
Here is my version. I went far enough forward to clear the radius rods and pinched the rails being I was Channeling the Body. As to the tapper of bottom of frame just keep the top of rail parrell on both sides of step and I welded the box plate at all contact points then caped the ends of frame to the box plate. I then fill welded the outboard seam of the frame. The Wizzard
are u running an A rear spring? as an option, have u considered a T spring with a couple leaves added for stiffness
View attachment 2964986 I'm conflicted about whether to "Z" or not to "Z"...prefer NOT, but the rear on my '31 roadster is quite a bit higher on mine that in your pic. Anyone know how I can determine if I have the lowest spring pack in place? Purchased work in progress so don't have history. It looks stock but recently examined a bone stock '31 roadster at car show and the top of his rear crossmember was at least 4" closer to the top of banjo than mine and shape seemed much flatter. Can weight on rear really drop it that much? Before stepping the frame I need to make sure I have the right spring pack. Any help would be greatly appreciated. J
Looks like you have an 8 spring roadster pack which is right. You can get it lower by taking out some of the longer springs. Looks like the long ones are all still there and short ones moved to bottom. You can get it lower but the ride will be soft I think. If you're not going to have weight in the back or use a rumble seat I think you could get away with it that way and some shocks. To get mine as low as it is in the picture there are only two of the long springs in and the ends are flattened out.
Yes, that appears to be a very tall spring pack. My xmember is about 4" from the top center of the banjo. Body weight will not drop it by much. I'd go after the spring pack first.
2935... Top or bottom of crossmember? The top of mine is 10-1/2" above banjo - bottom space about 8" If I could somehow gain (lose) 3-4", I wouldn't bother with stepping the frame. Do you happen to know what you're using for a spring pack? I'm not sure what I have vs. what I need. Thanks again
It actually has 7 leaves - one of the short plates below main leaf is tapered on ends like all other leaves above. However, the bottom-most short one under main leaf is squared off both ends, so not sure where it was in pack originally. You're right, the previous owner moved things around. Any history on how your spring pack came to be the way it is? You say "flattened out" - done after-the-fact? Thanks for all ideas....
bottom. I used my original roadster pack w/reverse eye and several leaves removed with the ones removed cut to 12" and placed on the bottom to fill the xmem. I know Model A's used different packs over the years and models.
I wasn't all that impressed with the way things were going after stepping my frame so I built a complete different frame. I used a 36 rear end with a model A spring and a 39 front axle. I had a good front piece of an A frame and a good rear section. My wheel base is still exactly same as stock Model A and I have no step with a totally flat floor except over the tranny. I love the way this one is working out. I now have 3" between top of both front and rear axles and the bottom of the frame rails. You could do this basic change by just extending your frame 6-1/2" and moving the rear corssmember back and re hanging your stock spring. All you would need to do to your floor is extend the window for the crossmember cover. F.Y.I. That is a 36 Ford X member. The Wizzard
Ok, I looked at it closer on a bigger view than my phone...First off, the shortest spring in the pack with the chamfered edges should be on top no matter how the rest of them go. As far as the flattening the springs part, there is a picture in the bishop/tardel book showing a spring that is done this way. About six inches from the eyes the main spring and the next spring up are bent upward from their normal pitch to where they are practically level to the ground. I've done a lot of experimenting and trial and error on this spring situation. Tried different combinations of springs and ended up flattening that main spring. By the time I took leaves out and flattened the main leaf, the spring ended up being too long and the shackles were standing straight up. It works but it takes away from the stability in the rear. I haven't tried a T spring yet because I haven't been able to find one I could spring the cash for.
Beautiful job! Care to share how you acheived such great results? Did you make a vertical cut per Tardel or an angle? What shapes did you use for the fillets? Really clean looking work!!!
I cut at an angle and used 1/8 inch plate to close the open areas, think the overlap gives more strength than a straight cut and boxing plates. Used a tri-square and cut at a 45 degree angle, had a friend who is a welder do the welding and did a little grinding and bondo work.
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