Customs 53 ford, 239 flatty or 215 OHV 6?

For those with the pre Y block era fords, specifically 52-53 where you could find a 239 flat head V8 or a 215 overhead valve inline 6 under the hood... Which would you rather have in your cruiser?

I'm asking because I am looking at a 53 customline with a 215. I'm strongly considering buying the car, I also have a running 51 8BA sitting in what I consider a borderline builder/parts car (could flip a coin).

My knee jerk path of thought would have me ditching the 215, freshening up the 8BA with a new set of speedway water pumps, cross my fingers and swap out the 215 (which runs just fine by the way)

But, I'm also considering thinning my collection of project cars around the shop here. a 51 F1 with flat head V8 (parts truck, stuck engine) the 51 2 dr with the running flatty I speak of and possibly a 54 210 2 dr with 235 inline.

If I go robbing the running flat head out of the 51 tudor, it aint worth much... and I might regret it (reliability wise).

I know there is really no measurable HP difference in stock form between the 53 215 and 239. The gains would purely be the ability to pop the hood, point and say "flat head".

I would be more inclined to choose the flat head V8 in an open engine bay project, like a rod project displays the engine openly all the time. But this is under a closed hood, I can still run dual exhaust, I'm thinking the inline 215 may be more dependable and quite honestly could be viewed as... respectably "different" or some damn thing.



I'd like to hear from people who have or have had either. likes, dislikes, opinions or what ever.

Thanks.

 

" If it ain't broke don't fix it ", there is some wisdom in that quote. The 215 is a good engine for a driver, I like flatheads. Had one in my avatar, a 50 Ford, a 53 Merc and building another A with a flathead but for a driver I would use the 215 rather than swap out a good running motor.

 

Is this a trick question?

 

LOL I have run both engines at one time or another and in my opinion if I were building the car for me I would want the flatty. Not because it is "cool" or because it makes more zot then the 6 (I imagine that they are actually comparable), or even because speed parts are easier to come by, I just like flattys better.

I am not usually a flathead man in general, but I have had a couple that I really liked and wish I still owned even if I didn't own the body I had them in.

 

In '59 I bought a '53 Mainline, low mileage, clean, well kept college professor trade in with a 215 6cyl. and it was a great car. I was 19 yrs. old and I beat the shit outta that car for years with no powerplant issues. Can't say the same for the trans and rear axles however. At one point I actually commuted 100 miles each way to work for a month till I could move.
Kept it stock except for a split manifold and dual exhaust, and I never found a similarly equipped flathead Ford that I couldn't outrun in a street race.
One Sat morning just about daylight, after a wild night of drinking, and poker playing ( I lost), I wrapped that '53 around a tree and totally destroyed it, IIRC this was in '63/64. Ended up selling the engine to a friend who ran a gas station/ garage, and he installed it in a plumber's truck, where it ran for many years, outlasting the rest of the truck.
That little 215 is, I'm told, the basic engine enlarged thru the years to a 300 cid used in p'ups. The draw to a flathead just for the novelty and saying you have one is undeniable, I know. But for practicality if you're gonna do a lot of driving in it, you just can't beat that little six.

 

The six is the better more modern engine. Practically the same power and performance, and better mileage with no overheating worries.

I would keep the six till I couldn't stand it any longer, then swap in the flatty.

 

I'm normally not that hung up on tradition, but I'd have to go with the flathead. I can see a V6 instead of an inline 6, but I can't see going to the V6 from a V8. JMO--it's yours to do as you want. Damn---I didn't read the first part of the thread. Now that I did I'd still go with the flatty V8. That engine bay ain't no place for a 6.

 

Alright thanks for the input guys. Especially the first hand experience and stories shared. I really appreciate that.

I will look at the car tomorrow, if I buy it I think I will leave the little six in there. I might sell my 51 shoebox/239 and 54 2 Dr chev (both project cars) to help fund the purchase if the customline.

Maybe I will keep my 239 that I have in a 51 F1 as a potential future engine swap even though I doubt I'd do it. I would be more likely to skip past the flat head and the Y block and shoehorn a weight reduced FE in there if I took the leap into V8. Which would snowball into suspension and drive line upgrades... So on and so forth.

I'm going to look at the 53 tomorrow morning. She's a little dressed up for my taste. Skirts, Coronado trunk, all kinds of extra chrome like bumper hoops etc. Visor.... She's a full dresser. Lol

 

In what passed as magazine road tests back in that era, general consensus was that the OHV six cylinder outperformed the obsolete flathead, handled better, and got significantly better fuel economy. My dad's first brand new car was a 53 customline fordoor flathead so, emotionally it would be a tough call for me.

The 215 was later enlarged to 223 and was in production through 1964 in cars and trucks. There was also a larger 262 truck version in later years. The 262 was a truck only option.

The familiar 240 and 300 cubic inch six cylinder engines were an entirely different family introduced for the 1965 model year and had nothing in common with the 215-223 engines, other than both families being inline six cylinder engines.

Among the engine design community, few will find benefits to a vee configuration six over an inline configuration, except for packaging the shorter vee in small vehicles (collision crush/ passenger intrusion and FWD layout). The inline six is smoother running, and responds better to turbocharging (i.e. large Diesels) than a vee six configuration.

 

finn, thx for setting me straight on the 2 different families of 6 cyl OHV Fords, you'll note that I didn't make a positive statement on that, and I'm glad you got it straight in my head.

 

I do have the 223 version in a 64 galaxie 4 door. It pulls the car around just fine, real smooth.

If the little 215 runs at all like the 223, I know I'll be just fine with it in a 53 cruiser.

 

I purchased the car, been driving it today. Car is good but the engine has a knock, so... Now do I fix the 215 or swap the 239? Lol.

 

LOL well part of going to the prom is removing the extra cloths, isn't it?

 

No engine knock, it was a couple loose rocker arms. Runs like a sewing machine now.

 

I vote for the 215 tuff motor Ford even used it for the basis for the 6000 tractor diesel.

 

Oil delivery is all hosed up at the top end. I need to fix that and get some new push rods and adjuster tips for the rockers.

 

Learned to drive in my Dad's '53 fordor with the 6and 3 on the tree. Got so good with the 1-2 shift that I ripped the front seat mounts right through the floor (10 yrs of NE winters and salt). Scared the p out of me-what my Dad would do. so hurried home, sawed the legs off of an old dresser, drilled them and bolted from underneath. He never found out! Yes the 6 will do just fine and thanks for the memories.

 

well, she got us home. Seller said the car has had maybe 50 miles put on it in the past 17 years and he doesn't know much about the years previous.

we put on about 220 miles, today.

The top end is too dry (engine). I pulled the valve cover and there is an oil line feeding oil to the front and rear rocker shaft bases but not the 2 center ones. some of the pushrods look very dry, one of the pushrod tops was enlarged by the adjuster stud on a rocker arm and the ball end was very warn.

I snugged some clap out of a couple of rocker arms and the top end a bit with some oil.

I will have to research the engine a little, see what the proper oil system is for the top end, get a mechanical oil gauge on it and order some new parts. I may even need a set of lifters, some of the pushrods weren't spinning.

Here's the car though.







we pulled the skirts off and put them in the trunk.

 

One of our 1952-59 Ford Group members worked over his six banger!

 

check your oil pressure, years ago my boss got a falcon that had sat a long time and the pickup screen on the oil pump was nearly blocked with hardened gunk from sitting for years.

 

Thanks, I was reading up on oiling issues with these engines last night. We have an oil supply line coming from the lifter area up into the top side of the cylinder head. It's a hard line and once its up in the rocker area it splits with what looks like a compression fitting tee, the 2 ends then connect to the forward and rear rocker shaft holders. there is a hole in the tops of the shaft holders that the lines are stuffed onto then the metal is staked with a punch or chisel to retain the line.

I've run the engine with the valve cover off but I see no flow from anywhere.


I'll look at it later, I have to get back to work on customer cars.

 

That cow catcher front bumper is pretty cool. I would probably take it off but it is pretty cool, would make a good push car @ B-Ville.

 

I had a similar issue with my 215, I pulled the valve cover and poured some oil on the top end while it was running. It must have needed a bit of "priming" because shortly after the oil feed started pumping on the top end. Great little motors and as reliable as a tractor.

 

Here's a fun finding, the leaf spring shackles have been flipped down..... And she's got a stack of lowering blocks in her.

Lmao!

Things that make you go hmmmmm?

I'm going to dig into that top end oiling later today. I have a 223 I can rob pushrods and rocker bits from.

 

Nice looking old Ford there. If I remember right your 223 pieces should be similar to the 215 stuff. Just compare lengths, diameters and the like. That is unless the 223 is a late Silent Lash motor. If so then all bets are off. Good luck with it.
-Dave

 

Santa Clara, CA., 1958: High school senior Gary "Gearbox" Vierra drove a black '53 Ford Customline tudor sedan, 215 inline, with 3 on the tree...Gearbox earned the nickname after 12 shattered Ford boxes, straight 3 speeds, no O.D.
He worked after school at Ralph's machine shop, legend in the San Jose area for Horsepower.
Gearbox assembled another lower end, with .030" over pistons, and a balanced package from Ashland Grinding. Clay Smith cam & kit, Ralph ported and polished the head, dual Ford singles (with the glass float bowls) and Mallory ignition.
I helped with some assembly, but Gearbox did all the nice detailing, etc.
Many races, always 'outclassed': cars Gary raced should have beaten him...he loved eating Chevy V8s.

He finally sold the little Ford...to Ralph's son, "Goose". The Ford's rep lived on...Goose wanted Gary's old nickname, and strove to earn it...I think Goose blew 9 or 10 boxes...Ford 6 was a torque monster!
Very fast...Santa Clarans remember that car...

 

I have the 223 in my daily driver pickup and the oiling to the rocker arms is crap.
When i rebuild one i cut a grove in the bearing for the cam to let it have constant oil supply.
There are several kits to solve it...hardline from oilpressure switch under valvecover and attaches to end of rockerarmshaft.
Besides that its a great engine.

 

If you have to replace the rockers stay away for the 1961 and later silent lash stuff.

 

thanks guys.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday working on the top end.

the oil delivery tube coming up from the lifter area was unseated or partially unseated. I got that back in place and she was flowing oil to the top end again. It's a pretty simple system, the pushrods are solid so I'm assuming the lifters are solid as well. Either way, no oil is delivered to the top through the pushrods. All the oil is delivered from a feeder tube to the rocker arm shaft. there are plugs in the 2 ends of the hollow shaft to hold in the oil. the shaft has oiler holes at every rocker arm and the rocker arms have 2 little holes in them. one hole is lined up to squirt oil at the top of the push rod and the other hole lets oil run out to the top of the valve stem.

Almost all of these holes were sludged up, plugged.

I should have pulled the whole shaft and cleaned each rocker individually in the parts cleaner as well as the shaft. But I was kind of learning about the system as I went.

I removed the valve lash adjusters allowing access to the push rod oiler on each rocker. I poked a torch tip cleaner in there and squirted carb cleaner in the holes until they broke lose. Some of the rocker shaft holes were plugged as well.

I have it feeding oil to all 12 rockers now, I did a quick valve lash set basically by feel. I may be a few thou loose on some. I will set them with a feeler gauge today, 15 thousandths. The ignition points were also a bit goofed, contacting horrible, I tweaked the points with a plyers and set the dwell angle to 35 degrees, timed it by ear and fattened up the idle mixture a bit.

Guys, she's so damn smooth, lol! I love this little car.

Someone split the factory exhaust manifold between 4 and 5, capped the cut ends and welded on an outlet on the 5-6 chunk. so, she's split 4 cylinders and 2. I'd like to even that out some day but it actually sounds pretty good.

 

oh, and I didn't replace any parts. I could stand to replace a couple of the valve lash adjusters but for now I think it's ok, they are worn down from running dry but they still have a ball end shape whe the pushrods have a nice round pocket shape. they are all getting oil now and they are all spinning so I think we're good.

I just need an oil change now. the oil was clear on the dipstick before because it wasnt flowing. now that it's flowing she's getting dark pretty fast, lol.

I may run an engine flush or drop a couple qts of oil and pour in a little diesel fuel, let that circulate a bit then drop it all and put some new oil in.