Best 4-5 speed for this application?

We have a 1937 Ford with a 354 Hemi and are anticipating 400+ hp and at least that in torque. We are trying to figure out what 4 or 5 (preferably 4) speed that will withstand the power. It'll have 3.73 gears. I have looked and Muncies and I have heard of them blowing up in cars with less than 400 ft lbs. I also have heard the M22 has straight cut gears and is very loud, but stronger than the other Muncies. Also, if we ended up with a Muncie, wide or close ratio? I have also looked at Tremec TKOs, but I don't know much about them at all.

 

Ford Toploader four speeds are a good candidate. Note that there are big block and small block variants; the big block transmissions have closer ratios and are stronger. The Tremec TKO is related to the Ford Toploader in design.

 

I'll second the Ford toploader recommendation; there was good reason why you could buy GM/Mopar scattersheilds set up to accept the Ford gearbox back in the day. But if you have the bucks, I'd really look at the Tremec TKO boxes. Good for 500/600 ft-lbs and with a built-in overdrive, you can run aggressive rear gearing and still be streetable...

 

The Mopar four speeds were good behind the Super Stock Hemis of the '60s. Tremec T56 is pricey but would handle the torque and the .5:1 overdrive would be great for cruising. M22 Muncie has gears cut at about 22# and they do whine, strong trans but I have scattered a few behind stout SBCs. Your heart may be set on three pedals but don't sell a 727 Torqueflite short.

 

i bought a muncie from a fellow up in the wisconsin woods--his basic trans is good for 600 hp. i found him on line. he's got quick service and keeps in touch. $2,200 and he can tailor it for your app. i think was david's 4-speeds. he's in milwaukee now.

 

I am a T56 fan. Even my diminutive little Falcon has one.

Built properly they can handle brutal torque.

That said, if you're going to run one with the 0.50:1 6th, you will need to carefully choose your rear end gear.

That overdrive cuts the input RPMs by half. If you are running a 3.50:1 rear gear, it is going to feel like a 1.75:1, with an old-school non-overdrive 4-speed.

Cool for a dry lake bed. Push trucks on the street are frowned upon.

 

A Munce T-10 will handle 400 ponies it is a mater of learning to drive it. None of them will handle much if you can't slip the gears. A top loader from a big block Ford is a good traditional tranny and many a hemi coupe has had a lasalle tranny in it. But with the lasalle again you first must learn to drive.

 

IDONTTHINKSO

 

I do, been there done that. I would do it again. Until you get up into the mega HP/torque range most transmission breakage is driver error. 400 ponies is just a healthy streeter.

 

I think you made a wrong turn at Muncie.

 

maybe super t-10, but a healthy 301 would trash a t10

 

Maybe a Borg Warner Super T-10, but not a Muncie....they're too hard to find.

 

The rock, or stone-crusher M22 is a healthy trans. M20's and M21's are fine for SBC's in light cars.
I'd count your '37 as still light, but the Hemi can generate some torque!

 

Well you may be right about getting harder to find. They were not made of paper but there are a lot of fellas that need to go overkill I suppose.

 

I've never even seen a Muncie T-10 or Super T-10.

 

People confuse HP and torque when talking about manual trans ratings. Your modern and vintage OEM 4-speeds were rated for torque, HP has little to do with how well one will hold up in a given application. In order of rough torque ratings (low to high) for the vintage units these were Saginaw (300 ft-lbs), B-W T10/most Muncies/most Mopar (350 ft-lbs), SB Ford Toploader (375), the M22 (400), BB Ford Toploader/Hemi Mopar (425). There were variations of many of these and rarity will play a big part in which one you may find. Close-ratio boxes are generally stronger than wide-ratio in a given design, iron vs aluminum case versions, etc. That doesn't mean a lighter-duty box can't live behind a big-power motor, but as was said, your driving habits can be a big part of how long it lasts. The late T5s are light-duty, with most only rated at 300-350 ft-lbs, only some of the 'world-class' versions reach 400. The early Tremecs were good for about 425-450, roughly the same for the current T56 and the Richmonds, the TKO boxes are the current toque kings.

One thing I will add about using a lighter-duty box; even if you drive one cautiously, running one behind a big-torque motor can shorten bearing life considerably sometimes.

 

I had a Chevelle that came with one and an L-79. They were the mainstay of the small block race crowd around here for a long time. Light and durable enough to bash the 1320 on any given weekend or grudge night. I have seen them in everything from Impalas to GTOs at one time or another.

We ran one in a '57 Chevy hard top for several years before the fella that was running it built a prostock Camaro in the mid '70s. granted he was a driver, and didn't miss shifts.

 

A Munce T-10 will handle 400 ponies it is a mater of learning to drive it. None of them will handle much if you can't slip the gears. A top loader from a big block Ford is a good traditional tranny and many a hemi coupe has had a lasalle tranny in it. But with the lasalle again you first must learn to drive.

Do you mind explaining (slip the gears) I have a Muncie behind a high winding 327. I have a lot of money in the Muncie rebuild and love running it hard. Over the years I've destroyed several cluster gears with SBC. Thanks Ron

 

Oh gee I am getting old. Not selling gear by the pound, not missing shifts, clutching with a little finesse? I probably shouldn't mention this but a good shifter adjusted properly will help your cluster gears live longer, usually that is a shifter throw problem.

@carpok this is not a reflection on you but a general statement, no transmission will hold up if you drive like you are doing hard labor at Leavenworth. You don't have to hammer one to shift gears or win races.

 

For those who don't know---
T-10's and original Super T-10's were not made by Muncie, they were a Borg-Warner trans.

 

Hence the muncie tag. Should be a moot point seeing as you don't think one will hold up anyway. You are probably correct we don't know of the OP can drive or not.

 

Thanks I thought I new what you were getting at just wanted to be sure.
I had a 66 nova with a 350 hp never had a problem with the Muncie until I put a racing type clutch in it.
My 55 has a good clutch but a lot softer lock up and I do have the synchro stops set. Thank Ron

 

1.Your original reply makes no sense as a T-10 is a Borg-Warner trans not a Muncie.
2.There was no comment on my part as to an opinion of durability.
I will say that it makes no sense(to me) to start with any transmission, even new, that has marginal torque handling capabilities as OP originally alluded to.

 

I just have to ask, Why wouldn't you just run a Mopar 4 speed? They built them for the 426 Hemi's and Max Wedge cars. They seemed to hold up just fine. Add to that you can get a 833 that's tougher than Snot and has overdrive built in and shifts with a Hurst style shifter.
The Wizzard

 

Tartar---
With your stated gear ratio of 373's , I'd say with the Muncie M21(close ratio) you will be able to get the car moving fine from the start, but the wide ratio M20 with a low gear of 2.56 will be an extra benefit as the M21 only has a 2.21 first gear. Neither one can't take much TQ.
Here is the 4 speed that my roadster has in it, the Richmond Super T-10 #1304000070(2.43 first gear).
As stated here by Richmond it has the highest rated TQ handling capabilities, this is just my opinion but most Mfgs' stated ratings are on the conservative side.

 

DDDenny, I'm also having trouble understanding some of these transmission posts. I'd use a Super T-10 in a heartbeat.
Then again I didn't understand the last HAMB transmission thread that said T-5 Overdrives are a joke. The overdrive 5th gear is the reason their being used so much. First gear is still low enough to light up the tires. I'm still waiting for an explanation on that one. Doubt I'll ever see one though.

Gary

 

I have looked at a transmission called an M22W that has the straight gears of the M22 with the wide ratio of an M20. http://www.midwestmuncie.com/1968-camaro-m22w-1027/
Same as this one. The main issue for us/dad would be the noise it makes. Hoping the motor will be loud enough for us not to hear, if we end up with the Muncie.

 

Tartar---
Jegs shows my trans at $1,824 plus the ride.
Got it years ago for about $1200 plus $75 freight, sorry.
Keep in mind, these are 100% new and in stock.
Regarding the M-22, real hot rods are loud, that was part of the experience in the old days(60's), and still is.

 

I see them, but we are expecting the engine to have over 400 ft lbs. The Richmond is rated at 375 but I don't think we will be doing many hard launches. Only at stop lights. Still, we'd like to have something that would withstand the power with no doubts in our minds.

 

See chart in my post #25
Richmond #1304000070
Also note the roadrace version available, more $$$$ I'm sure.