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Technical '65 283, what oil pan gasket?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hotrod54chevy, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Everyone, my '65 283 in my '54 Chevy 210 is leaking and I'd like to replace it this weekend. Do I need one with a THICK front seal or THIN front seal? I've read both. I know I need to make sure it fits a '59-79 block, I just need to know. Or a part number if ya have one handy! :D

    We thought it was the stock oil filter leaking so we switched to a spin on adapter, but the oil still leaks when the car is put in gear, not sitting. Looks to be right in front of the flywheel, making an awful mess! We tightened up the pan bolts, but it's still leaking.

    Think I'll try my luck with a one piece filter!

    Here's how the pavement looked just pulling it out, shutting it off, starting it up and backing back in!

    Any help appreciated! Thanks!
     

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  2. If you've got the original '65 pan and front timing cover you'll need the thinner front pan seal. If the oil pan's been changed it's anybody's guess. '79 and newer pans used the thicker front seal.

    Are you using the stock original timing cover? The aftermarket chrome-goody-go-faster covers seem to have a reputation for being leak-prone. :oops:
     
    lothiandon1940 and hotrod54chevy like this.
  3. check your oil pressure fitting, have had that cause all kinds of trouble once
     
    tb33anda3rd and hotrod54chevy like this.
  4. My 283 was cast in'74 as a replacement block. I just went to a one piece gasket from ( I think it was ) felpro. Not a drop now and it leaked pretty bad. Well worth the $30 or so it cost.
     
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  5. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Pretty sure it's stock style or at least earlier. Came with points, Packard wires, etc. Thanks, everyone!
     
  6. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Some pics cause I love my motor :D
     

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  7. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    It should be the thin front rubber if all is original. Every drivers side dipstick I have built needed the thin seal.
    Aftermarket blocks like Dart SHP have the passenger side dipstick but use the thin seal too.
    Fel-Pro is the best by far, a dab of RTV in each corner and no leaks. Make sure you check the pan gasket surface for being flat. Over tightening bolts will warp the pan. Hammer and dolly it flat and check with a straightedge before putting it back on the engine.
     
  8. krgdowdall
    Joined: Apr 3, 2015
    Posts: 131

    krgdowdall
    Member
    from Alberta

    Check when you purchase the gasket set as some are supplied with both the thick and thin end seals.
    Some complete rebuild sets also supply both thick and thin end seals.
    When installing the spin on filter kit did you replace the outside canister gasket? quite difficult to see at times. I have seen one leaky engine that had 3 gaskets installed.
     
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  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    Depends what timing cover you have. 74 and older use the thin one, 75 up use the thick one.
     
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  10. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    How can I tell which kind I have? I wanna use a one piece, so I wouldn't have the option of having both kinds of ends.
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,942

    squirrel
    Member

    see how the pan fits to the timing cover. If the gap is less than 1/4", then it's the early one. If the gap is more than 1/4", then it's the late one.

    Or take it apart and see what you have.

    Or look at the timing tab...the one in the picture sure looks like an early cover.
     
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  12. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio


    Thanks again! I'll double check, but what's in the pic is what it has. Only changed to a short water pump! Thanks!
     
  13. Richard Head
    Joined: Feb 19, 2005
    Posts: 535

    Richard Head
    Member

    Fel-pro usually includes a guide in the oil pan gasket instructions about how to determine which end gaskets you need. There is a measurement with the pan laying upside down on a flat surface that you reference to select the correct end seal. If you want the one piece gasket, you may have to remove your pan first and determine what you have before buying one.
    Dave
     
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  14. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Well, my father-in-law and I spent a good deal of time measuring, reading, remeasuring and rereading before deciding on a new gasket, since we only wanted to be under it once. Apparently, the front seal is measured from the timing chain cover inwards to the back of the block? After all that, we parted ways for the weekend was over and we both work full-time. Fast forward to Friday and I find out that he'd already replaced the gasket for me! While I was appreciative of his hard work, he told me he used a 4 piece because that was all he could get without ordering. Wish he'd have told me, I'd just have ordered one, but oh well. Hoping his efforts weren't in vain! Filled her with oil, started her up and put her in R and 1st. "Well, it's not leaking like it was..." Uh oh, leaks before driving? That can't be good. Drive down the road, smell something burning. Come back, pop the hood. Oh, yeah... I bought new steal/rubber valve cover gaskets. They're not on yet. Obvious cork ones leaking on the exhaust causing the burning smell. Also. My valve pan had an opening for a breather I never had in it, so that could throw back some, but I'll definitely check around the oil pressure fitting and other obvious places, as I replace the gaskets and my solid script valve covers. Backing up into the garage, this was the mess it made. Looks like I have more work to do.
     

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  15. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 583

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    are you sure you are not dealing with a bad rear main seal?the "leaking when put in gear"sounds more like a rear seal problem[putting it in gear can tend to load the rear main differently than when in neutral]
     
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  16. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Oldtom, that's my worst fear! But, like others will say, there might be other reasons that still wouldn't be fixed after replacing a main seal. I'm trying easy solutions first :D
     
  17. k9racer
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 3,091

    k9racer
    Member

    For pesky non preasure oil leaks after a engine is installed I use Permatex part number 82099. It is a spray and works excellent.
     
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  18. You may have a leak at the seal where the balancer bolts to the crank snout. It may not leak while not running but will when running. It's easily mistaken for a leak at the front seal of the pan to timing cover.
     
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  19. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    What we actually saw leaking was coming from the back before we replaced the pan gasket. We only worried about the front seal because I haven't purchased one for an older block in over a decade.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  20. Most gaskets (felpro, victor and etc) come with several options and I just use the one that works.

    Someone mentioned the thick rubber one piece gaskets, I have used those and they seem to be a one size fits all. The seldom of ever leak.
     
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  21. tig master
    Joined: Apr 9, 2009
    Posts: 416

    tig master
    Member
    from up north

    Covers don't change it is the pan.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 5,217

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Tig Master is correct & the pan change occured mid-year '74
    dave
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  23. I think what squirrel was referring to is the fact that some aftermarket timing covers can cause a discrepancy in the gap between the pan lip and the timing cover as can some aftermarket oil pans.
     
  24. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Well, like I'd said in my other post, the filter was leaking, so went back to the canister and that stopped. Then the front of the pan under the timing cover was leaking, so we took a look. We decided to pull the pan off and try to fix it instead of just loosening the front bolts and try to get it to seal. Glad we did. Apparently, the crank was hitting on the inside of the pan and wearing a hole in it.
     

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  25. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    Ok. New Jegs oil pan, gasket and oil pan bolts. The car starts and drives, but still leaks in the front. Should I buy another timing chain cover and gaskets for that and the water pump? My dad and father-in-law are getting tired of messing with this, and I haven't been able to drive the car a leak free distance since last May. They think I should take it to a mechanic instead of putting more money into parts, but I feel that I'd still be paying for the parts, I'd just also be paying for someone else to put them on, too! I'm up for any advice! Thanks!
     
  26. where is the leak coming from now?
     
  27. BnG Engine
    Joined: Jul 1, 2015
    Posts: 60

    BnG Engine
    Member

    Is the bolt still in the hole in front of the fuel pump? I see it's in place in the above pictures but don't know if maybe someone removed it for one reason or another.
     
  28. hotrod54chevy
    Joined: Nov 7, 2003
    Posts: 1,590

    hotrod54chevy
    Member
    from Ohio

    BnG, still there, no one has touched it. Tb33anda3rd, the front, under the timing cover that we've never had off.
     
  29. BnG Engine
    Joined: Jul 1, 2015
    Posts: 60

    BnG Engine
    Member

    Just another thought the harmonic balancer seal surface could have a groove in it allowing the front seal to leak. Fel Pro makes something called Sleeve and Seal specifically for this problem.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.

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