Hemi guys, what's the difference between car engine and Industrial ?

I've got a line on a 354 hemi Industrial engine, any things that I should look out for in comparison with a car engine ?

Thanks, Richard

 

Mostly timing cover and water outlets in the heads none of which really stop you using the motor buy it ........ you wont be sorry most likley has done very little work

QQ

 

Get some numbers off of it and contact www.hothemiheads.com for more info. The guy is very helpful. Very likely that your engine has done many hours of irrigation pumping at steady RPM's and has probably had good maintenance over the years. Should be a good rebuilder candidate.

 

Dont take any of this as gospel, as I'm going off a crusty old memmory, and I'v been up all night.

But I seem to remeber the following...

All industrial Hemi's were either 331's or 392's
All 331's had extended bellhousings
All industrials had no heat riser passages in the heads
The front cover was different, and wont work in a car
The oil pan was different, and wont work in a car
The distributor wont work in a car, but it can be rebuilt to work properly [rare parts]
The heads had no acessory bolt holes, but they do have the bossets, and can be drilled/tapped.
The carb wont work in a car, but can be rebuilt [like the dizzy]
The exhaust manifolds are unique, and I think the bolt holes for car manifolds/headers must be drilled/tapped
The cam-shaft is an EXTREMELY mild grind, not suitable for automotive use

So there you have it.
These engines were designed to make BIG torque at a set RPM, and run for hours if not days at a time.

Once you get it down to a short block, it's identical to the car version. The heads have no heat risers, and some bolt holes were not drilled at the factory, and a great deal of the external engine "bolt on's" were absolutely unique to the industrial engine.

Like I said, I'm going off a foggy sleep deprived memmory, but that's how I remember it being told to me.

 

I am sure that you are right on all these items. But as expensive as these engines have become, this might be a good way to acquire a short block and buy the other items over a period of time and someday have a very desirable engine.

 

We just picked up junk Industrial Hemi's. 3 out of 4 were cracked blocks. We have used Industrials before in cars. Just use the bare blocks and heads. They repro almost eveything else. And since these are so expensive and so hard to find now, just what povertyflats said, build it over time.

 

As a general rule (I'm more familiar with FE's) the industrial engines typically have a lot lower compression. On FE's in particular, they ran a cast iron front cover instead of the investment cast aluminum. Also the heads were typically a more open chamber design and the intakes were normally 2bbl. I'm not sure what the Hemi's were used for, but a lot of FE's were irrigation pump engines. So they typically ran at a constant RPM and were not abused. Most Industrial FE's don't even have a top ridge in the cylinders.

 

Invest in the PAW early Hemi book, only a few bucks, and it has good pictures of all the differences.

 

I think adjustable rocker arms are also part of the list.

 

my 331 industrail .is not an extended bell housing.the pan looks like every other pan ive seen (rear sump) hot heads make a timing cover /water pump adapter(sbc),heads have mounting holes.change out the cam to a 55-56 year style .(hot heads has the cam and adapter needed) most ive seen have the adjustable rockets ...

 

Well now...The industrial engines are as close to passenger car as you will get. Distinctly different from truck engines with which they are usually compared, the Industrial series are easily used in 'rods. Yes, they were almost always governed, and many were run on natural gas or propane. These will be very clean inside.
Mother Mopar liked to make specials so it is possible that 392 was available but don't hold your breath. Most Chrysler Industrials were 331 with stamped ID on block: Ind 20, Ind 20A, Ind 24, Ind 24A, Ind 56. You can expect the Ind-56 to be a 354 casting. Look for a 'W' cast into the sides of the block. Ind 56A should be an actual 354. Now for the 'others'; Ind 56A1 is a 325 Dodge; Ind 53 and Ind 54 are 315 Dodge; Ind 52 is a 259 Dodge (poly); and Ind 18 and Ind 18A are 241 Dodge. Dodge engines will have plain valve covers.
Chrysler Industrials will have embossed valve covers with 'bumps' but rarely have adjustable rockers. Exhaust manifolds are usually 'log' style, Intake manifolds are either 2-bbl or dual 1-bbl. Camshafts are normal rotation, chain driven. Most often, the 331 & 354 Chryslers will use the 51-54 style front cover/water pump assembly. The cylinder heads are basically pass car units, with exhaust crossover.
Cheers.

 

73RR beat me to it. There is no such thing as a 392 industrial but there are 354's.

I've got four of the IND-56A 354 hemis from running to very stuck. Pretty much the same as an automotive engine. They do use a different rear amin cap that requires the use of a 392 oil pump and intermediate shaft. The cranks in them are machined for pilot bearings. The heads are pretty much like the automotive but have hardened seats as many ran on propane.

The Ind-56A engines use the newer seperate water pump and water crossover.

 

All I know is a local guy put an industrial Hemi in a traditional rod a couple years back and it didn't have much power. This is an agricultural area so it probably powered an irrigation pump. He sold the truck but had he kept it he was putting a SBC in it. I think you'll be spending a lot of time and money to get it right but if the purchase price is right, go for it.

 

Understand that the industrials cams are designed for low RPM and torque. A cam change really wakes things up. I won't dispute the time and money thing though. Hemi's are addictive once you get started though. For that matter so are blowers. I'll be putting my four Stromberg setup on the digger I'm building for a while but she'll see a blower eventually.

 

The PAW book is not entirely accurate. Don't rely on it. The pictures show the differences though. Get the engine, buy the Tex Smith Hemi book and go to it!

Great info mentioned above already. Can't add anything that hasn't been said.

There's a TON of info on the HAMB for early Hemis now. Click on the banner link in my signature line for more details.

Keep us posted!!!

 

Thanks for all the replys,
I haven't seen the engine in person but I'm told it was in a fork lift and was in warehouse use. It's owned by a church and was running when the starter crapped out, has been inside since new. Setting in the corner of the warehouse now. $650

 

Forklift means probably propane = clean. Go for it!

 

buddy of mine just bolted one in his '29A in the "mock up" stage... looks cool... haven't heard it run yet though. should be "interesting"

Threadjack alert...
(BTW... if anyone has a multicarb setup (2x1, 2x2 or ???) for one of these they'd like to part with "reasonably"... please let me know via p.m. as his birthday is coming and he's storing all my crap in his garage until I can get started on my own personal frankenstein.)

 

Never know what has been changed around in industrial applications.Found one in an irrigation pump that was a 331 poly converted to hemi with 354 automotive heads.Was running on propane and was very clean inside.

 

my 331 pumped water to pecan trees,it didnt get used allot .it set in my buddys barn for years after the farm shut down.i got it for a song..opened it up looks like new ....

 

Here's the book Scooter was talking about, it's great:

 

I've redone 3 industrial 331 for street cars,and have one 354 and one 331 industrial in the shed ,all mine come from the midwest,the cams are all low end cams will work fine with high rear gear but dont go much over 4000,none of mine and i havent seen any industrials yet with factory adjustable rockers,all the marines ive seen had them as the 300's.the rumor has it the industrials had higher nickle but my machinist that bored one of my car blocks and one industrial said he could tell no difference so i say its a urban myth.All the 331 ind ive had had the tripple 5 heads were all 55 blocks,but the kicker is that you spend a little cash on the heads because they have sodium filled bigger stems,which makes the valves heavier than hell,so new guides and valves are in order,but most of the industrials were run on propane around here so didnt need bored,little to no taper,also have the rear sump pans a real plus,i like em myself there usually in excellent shape inside,and all ive seen in my area have the good flowing heads but need guides
and valves,springs changed.Also that book needs alot of editing from what ive seen in the real world,there is alot of good info but dont take it all for gospel,same with the paw catalog.

 

Take a look at the timing cover. The ind block has a bolt @ 12 O'Clock, the car block has then @ 11 & 1. If you have 1 bolt @ 12, & lots of clutter on the cover, you can use a 51-4 cover to tidy it up a bit.

 

great info!

 

One correction from me. The late 331, I believe mid-'54 and all '55 Hemis had normal bell housings.

 

The '54 4 bl engines & all later hemis are short tail. '54 2 bl long tail engines were planned to be used on standard NYers, but few have been reported.

 

the motor i'm trying to buy has tag on short bellhousing that says "IND-56"! from the info i have read says it's a 331!

 

I have industrial'56 354 heads on mine, a '56 poly block
explain heat risers, the exhaust manifolds are great

 

Industrial engines had heavier cylinder walls and we popular in the drag racing circles.