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Technical Help!? 53 merc/39 toploader clutch problem

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by CanUFelix, May 19, 2015.

  1. I don't know anything about Old's P.P. What I do know is what motors I pulled both of these P.P'S off of and that my early Olds V-8 that's bolted up to a pre 48 tranny uses the early Ford disc and P.P. with the Flywheel re drilled to the Ford bolt pattern. I think that was pretty standard years back.
    The Wizzard
     
  2. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    ... here is my early Olds 303 going into the 40 with stock 40 Ford trans.

    That is a stock early Olds pressure plate. I believe I adjusted the finger screws outwards, but not sure. The disc I found almost new at a swap, and the seller said it was for his Merc..maybe he said 1950 or so.

    The Merc disc, I forgot what diameter, but was bigger than flathead Ford, but not as big as Olds.

    The Olds pressure plate can take discs up to 11"

    The only point of my post, is that if a person can't get a Merc plate and needed to redrill anyways, maybe an Olds plate could be found


    DSCN4152 (Large).JPG DSCN4153 (Large).JPG
     
  3. Good point F&J. I bet a lot of parts crossed the lines with very minor mods back then.
    The Wizzard
     
  4. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    Thanks guys, the photos really help, i placed both my PPs on the bench and measured the finger hight from the deck. the '48 measures2.82" and the '53 measures 2.53". so going off of the wizzards measurements a 49/50 PP would give me almost an extra 1/2 inch of travel... still doesn't feel like enough throw to me, can anybody tell us how far the fingers should move when the clutch is depressed?
     
  5. I think to get what your asking it needs to come off a fully installed unit and working correct. You caould do that through the inspection window on top of the bell housing. Unfortunatly I don't have one all together right now.
    The Wizzard
     
  6. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    the other thing i'm wondering is whether there are TO bearings that will fit the 39 trans...if the bearing was offset more from the carrier it would push further into the pressure plate. does anybody out there know?

    I know im asking a lot of questions but i really want a good picture before i go and buy more parts....i really dont need a third pressure plate that doesnt fix the problem.
     
  7. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    here's a photo of the TO bearing i have installed right now...

    TO bearing.JPG
     
  8. As far as I know there is only one T.O. Bearing for all pre 49 Ford trannys. It measures 3-9/16 O.D.
    The Wizzard
     
  9. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Throwouts 1932-48, '49-50 Mercs, 48-52 atleast truck are still the same part. The pressure plate on left that uses an 11" clutch is NOT merc. If it is early Ford, it is something like '35-52 truck...it could also be Cad or Olds, but fingers would be longer for smaller throwout used on Nonfords.
    '49-50 and '51-53 Merc used pressure plates looking like one on right (Ihave not looked at Merc ones recently enough to full ID from Pic), a Borg and Beck, not a Long like the one on right. The two merc plates differ in finger length and quite possibly height. Finger height can only be measured woth plate bolted over a clutch plate on a flyweel. This is drifting all over the place...whatever is what, you need a '49 type pressure plate, 10" disc for early Ford, or your current plate brebuilt with '49 fingers!
    You could also redrill flywheel for common 10" '47 Ford type wheel...Long type, totally dif bolt pattern than Merc.
     
  10. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    Thanks for the Clarification Bruce...im going to run up to Early Ford in San Dimas and hopefully score a 49 plate...stay tuned.
     
  11. Bruce; What is involved in installing a Truck P.P. in a passenger car? The motor/bellhousing and trans are still all in the pile next to my 50 Merc they all came out of as a unit. Would that just take the Truck flywheel and P.P. bolted to the motor?
    The Wizzard
     
  12. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    A '49 up truck wheel will go right in to an earlier Ford. Trucks mostly had the 11", which is strong but pretty heavy. Some pickups had a 10" disc, and that can be nicely put together with the easy to get '46-48 type parts. If proper truck parts (AND if flywheel is from the late type motor) everything will bolt in and use the early throwout.
    The Cad and Olds 11" pressure plate is just about the same, but has the same problem you already have...wrong fingers for small bearing! It would likely be right for use with '49 up Ford passenger.
     
  13. So it sounds like someone just changed Flywheel P.P. and disc to 11" from 10" before I bought the car.
    The Wizzard
     
  14. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    OK, progress report, and its a Duesy

    So I went up to the Early ford store in San Dimas with tape measure in hand....49 Merc pressure plate will NOT work with this set up. diameter of fingers is too small for my throw out bearing. it seams that the 53 Merc pressure plate is the perfect fit. so what else could it be? wrong flywheel? at some point the fly wheel on my engine was drilled for both the correct 53 PP and also an earlier type like the one that came on my 48 motor. so this was automatically a questionable component. I went home, pulled the flywheel checked to see if the ring gear was the correct type for s 53 (it was) and took all the measurements i could...called Bill in San Dimas and he checked the dims against a flywheel he had in stock and it matched. at this point the only suspicious thing was how far away from the PP fingers the TO bearing sat at rest. I double checked that the clutch fork was on the correct way and that the shaft was not turned around......all seems to be correct. At this point I bolted the whole thing back together so that incould examine the way the TO hit the PP fingers and wouldn't ya know it, the bloody thing seems to be working correctly. I guess something must have been tweaked or miss aligned in the original set up because i cant for the life of me see what changed.

    Just for the record. the set up i have that works for mating a 53 Mercury Flathead to a 39 type toploader trans is. 3 9/16" throw out bearing. 10" pressure plate with large splines to accommodate the input shaft on the 39 trans and the 10"pressure plate from the 53 Mercury engine (large pressed steel fingers) though i was told my earlier pressure plate with adjusters at the ends of the fingers would also work.

    i'll update this once its in the car and i have traction to the rear wheels.....
     
  15. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Earlier plate with adjustable fingers would be a Long, which can't fit same wheel as the late merc Borg and Beck...3 pairs of holes rather than evenly spaced. '49 merc should have the BIGGER central circle and fit the early Ford throwout, '53 should have fingers that can interfere when depressed and not really meeting the early throwout...?
    '51-53 Mercs used the late Ford trans with small collar and small throwout bearing... but if you have a combo that fits, don't worry about possibly muddled nomenclatures...
     
  16. CanUFelix
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 503

    CanUFelix
    Member
    from venice CA

    Hi Bruce, I'll bare that in mind. My flywheel has already been drilled to accept the earlier plate.....perhaps I'm better to run that one? 53 fingers did not seem to interfere when I depressed them in a dry run.....maybe different when the motor is running....I'll try to double check that before I do final instal....
     

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