Technical What speed is to hard on my 1959 Custom 300, 223

I have 1959 Ford Custom 300 Fordor with a 223 Inline Six, 3 Speed. Is 70 mph an acceptable speed or is that going to over work the engine with the factory drive train? I do not expect a speed demon but I want to be cautious and have it live a long time because it only has 39,000 original miles. If 70 is not a "safe zone", what could I do to make it keep up at modern highway speeds?

 

Standard three speed, or with overdrive? Without OD, running it a 70 for extended periods won't be all that good for it. OD, no problem....

 

I would keep it down to 55 or 60 in the interest of long life. 2200 RPM is peak torque speed, usually a sweet spot for steady cruising. A lot depends on your rear axle ratio.

You will have to try it out and see how it feels. When I was a kid our family car was a 57 Ford sedan with six and 3 speed. I recall taking trips at 60 - 70 MPH but don't know if I would want to try it today. It would probably be a lot happier at 60 which is totally legal and should not cause any problems.

 

In '59 I bought a '53 Mainliner Tudor with the 215 cid version of this same engine. IIRC the mileage was quite low. When I last had contact with that engine, I had sold it to a guy who put the engine in a p'up and drove it forever, it seems. I had wrapped the '53 around a Chestnut tree along about '63. Had in excess of 100K miles on it when I wrecked it.
I was young, dumb, full of piss and vinegar, "10 ft tall and bulletproof"., and my cruising speed with no law visible was as fast as the car would run, or however fast I could get thru traffic.!
That ohv six was so much superior to our "beloved" flathead that it ain't funny.

 

I spent more than 15 years with a 223/3 speed/3.91 rear ratio in my truck as a daily driver (7-10,000miles/year). It seemed to like 67mph at 3300 rpm as a top end on the freeway. But I never drove it more than about 5 hours at that speed If I had done things like change the oil more than every few years, it might still be in the truck. With an overdrive transmission, that motor will probably outlast fossil fuels. You can get adapters to put a ford t5 behind it here" http://www.ford-y-block.com/

 

That was my first car. I hated it and tried everything possible to destroy it. YOU CAN'T HURT IT!!

 

I cant recall the exact ratio but i remember it to be a 37X or so. As for over drive haha nope i do not have a tach yet butvi think the rotted muffler makes it sound like it is reving more than it is. I also lost speedo last night... took off and at 45 it squeeled and pegged the spedo at 120. Looks like ive got a lot of love to invest yet lol. Thanks for the input.

 

It will tell you when it's had enough, hopefully not too far from home.

 

Wayne you '59 should be mechanically similar to my '60 Fairlane. 223, 3-speed and 3.56 axle gear. With O.E. height tires, about 27" tall, 70 mph should be about 3000 to 3100 rpm. If the drive train is in decent shape there shouldn't be a problem with 70 mph. If you do have 3.70 or 3.90 gears then that may change things. When I was driving my sixty daily I took a few trips down the highway at 65 to 70 mph. Never really pushed it any faster. Good luck with it. -Dave

 

It is not the speed that is hard on the engine it is the RPM. The 6 or about any engine that any of us would be using for that matter is not going to hold up well to a constant high RPM situation. I would probably like to keep that particular engine if it was in good shape @ or below 3K for an extended period and even at that I would let off about every so often to suck oil up to the top end.

if the engine is old and worn it is not going to survive extended periods at highway speed period. People used to go cross country with them and back when I was a kid we run the guts out of them or anything else that we owned for that matter, but the 6 cylinder cars were basically around town cars not coast to coast cars.

 

Town Sedan is probably correct with the 3.56 rear, same as what my '59 with the OD came with. Decode the VIN tag and that will tell you, unless it was changed.

 

I think I was too conservative in my first response. Yours is one of the first of the short stroke OHV engines. It is capable of higher speeds than the old long stroke jobs.

Assess the condition of the engine by checking compression and oil pressure. If it is in good shape and tuned up, 70 should not do any harm.

Of course you will have to use your own judgement. If the engine is worn, it might last for years at 50 but blow up at 70. There is age and wear to consider as well as the original design.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/223-ford-good-motor-or-good-boat-anchor.262728/

 

What does it "feel" like? If its happy you will know; conversely if it doesn't quite feel right change the situation or it's likely to hand you parts...

 

I've also owned a '61 Fairlane 223 & FOM. It was a slug. But that, I believe, was more the the fault of the automatic tranny. Personally I'd stay way from the last of the passenger car 223's with the Rube Goldberg silent lash valve train. Or, swap it to the earlier style set up. Just remember there are only 4 main bearings in this family of six cyliners, but if you play nice the 223 is a good engine. -Dave

 

I've owned several of these 'back in the day', and they are a pretty sturdy motor. A few tips; don't run a multigrade oil in them or if you do, use at minimum a 20W50. They weren't clearanced tight enough for thin oil, one of mine rattled when I first got it because the PO had been using 10W30. A switch to straight 30W fixed that, and I'd recommend that weight oil for daily use. Do check your axle ratio, and I wouldn't be surprised at a 3.70 rear gear. That would put you close to 3K rpm at 65 mph, with each 5 mph increment up or down changing it by about 230 rpm. These make max torque at about 2200 rpm so your 'sweet spot' for power/economy will be right around that rpm or a bit above.

 

After Running the Vin it has a 3.56 Rear after all and is still in the car. Literally nothing seemed to have been touched in its life before I got under the hood. As for Compression I will find out how healthy it is. I have high hopes on the compression just by the way it has a nice strong launch off the line every time. Will switch to a straight 40. It does seem a bit noisy in the valve train and its running 10w 30 at the moment, my old 63 F100 223 I had was just as loud like a sewing machine but it had been used and abused before i got it.

 

I just used one up about a year ago. Too bad to because it was a sweet little engine. They like it better at this age if you go 55-60. As you probly know it will cost you a decent amount to overhaul it and this is where the thoughts start to come in…"I could get 2 more cylinders for what this is gonna cost"

 

I don't necessarily agree with 40 wt oil. Put an accessory oil pressure gauge on the old girl and see what the hot idling oil pressure is. If it's below 15-20# at hot idle, then maybe move up to 20w-50, but a straight 40 wt. oil is gonna be slow in getting lubrication thru the engine on cold starts, and depending on where you live (it's not listed in your profile and I don't see it in your posts) could be a contributing factor to a non starter in cold weather..

 

I agree with dirty old man and his suggestion of a multi-grade oil. And don't use synthetic. With all the cork gaskets in that motor you'll have another Exxon Valdez.

 

If your oil pressure is good and your valvetrain is adjusted properly, I don't see any reason why you couldn't run it at 3000 rpm all day long. I agree that SAE30 weight oil is a good suggestion, which I think gives a little extra "cushion" on bearing clearances in an old, worn engine. I'd just be nice to it and I think you should be OK. Don't hammer it full throttle all the time, don't dump the clutch, just drive it nice and it should be fine.

 

Remember you have solid lifters and an adjustable valve train. Properly set it should have an enjoyable sewing machine sound to the engine. It will never sound like a hydraulic lifter engine. The more out of adjustment the valve train is the louder and lousier it will run.

 

In the name of full disclosure, let me add that I am planning to replace my 223 with a Y-Block. The only complaint I had while daily driving my sixty was that I wanted a little more power for that big old barge.

However I plan to keep and find a home for the six banger. Maybe a HA/GR car. Also have thought about finding a dual point distributor for it to add to the wonderful calliope of sound it makes. Later! -Dave

 

Years ago I read that engineers believed that a piston travel speed of 2500 feet per minute was the upper limit of acceptable. That, of course, is determined by the stroke and rpm of the engine.

For instance, according to my reference book, your engine has a 3.62" stroke, so every 360 degrees of crank rotation would move a piston 7.24". 2500 feet x 12 = 30,000 inches. 30,000" / 7.24" = 4144 rpm. According to the theory, 4144 rpm is the maximum rpm a 3.62" stroke engine should be operated at. I do not know if that is 'maximum' or 'maximum continuous'.

Now, to determine what road speed that equates to requires knowing the rear axle ratio and tire rolling diameter...OR....a tachometer. As an opinion, were it my engine, I would keep it under 3500 rpm, or less, for any extended operation.

Ray

 

I realize mine was a lot newer then than yours is now, but age is only a number. Condition, which can be fairly accurately determined by hot idle oil pressure readings from an accurate gauge, and compression readings or leakdown tests, is a far greater indication of the engine's health.
As I said, I drove mine damn hard for years and it ran forever in a plumber's truck after I ran the hell outta it till I wrapped that '53 around a Chestnut tree.
At one point, for several weeks, due to circumstances I won't bore you with, I drove that '53 100 miles EACH WAY to work and home. There was a new road involved with not a lot of traffic and almost no cops, so there were lots of miles driven @ 85-90 mph!
That was without a doubt the toughest engine I ever had. I've had faster, more powerful ones, but never had one that took so much abuse and just kept on humming.

 

I'll second the 'don't use straight 40w oil' recommendation; unless your local temps are above about 70 degrees all the time, this will be too thick. It will be hard-starting, and pushing that thick oil will be tough on the oil pump. These were designed for 30W for 'summer' driving, that's the best choice. The 3.56 gears won't change your rpm much; you'll be at about 2900 at 65 mph, with each 5 mph above/below changing it by 220 rpm.

Too bad it doesn't have the OD trans; these are sweet combos when everything works right. The last one I had delivered a consistent 20+ mpg (including in-town driving) and got as much as 27 on the highway.

 

1959 Ford 3.625" bore x 3.60" stroke. HP 145 @ 4200 rpm. Torque 206 @ 2200 rpm. Of course this was when new, or freshly refreshed. -Dave

 

Put a t-5 transmission in it,you will love it.

 

Back at the time your car was produced the state I live in the speed limit was 70 MPH. I don't remember people saying "don't buy the six because you can't run the speed limit". They bought them ran them 70 and they didn't blow up.

 

What is this "speed limit" you speak of????????????