Technical Are all 9" , no! Maybe 8.8"? Ford brakes the same?

Not much pedal when I had the '31 out this weekend past. I have determined the front discs are working, the Ford 9" rears not so much-like none. Master cylinder fluid's not too low. I pulled the drums-left one easy-right one a Bear. The left drum has some glazing, the shoes look "wet" and shiny smooth and there's some wheel cylinder leakage-just a bit. On the right-lots of brake dust, the shoes look ok but the adjuster isn't working well and there's a loose cable (e-brake?).

Since all of this is of unknown age-installed by the previous builder, perhaps I would be ahead to just buy new shoes, wheel cylinders and spring kits and put all new in? Without an id tag(or without knowing where to look) is there some way to predict which kits I'll need? Thanks

 

wheel cylinders should have a number cast into them. and any good parts guy could get you shoes with the dimensions 9"x 1 1/2" for example.

 

Drum diameter and shoe width would be the clues to replacement parts. The wheel cylinder bore diameter will also be needed.

 

Think the 9in drums were made in at least three different widths from 2 1/2, 2, and 1 3/4 (maybe 1 7/8). Not aware of any drums that weren't 12in diameter but it might be possible.

May be different cylinder bores as well.

So, yeah, don't assume anything without looking up part #s.

 

Thanks-guess I'll need to clean up the cylinders and look for #'s. I can get shoe width-I assume across the wear surface? and drum diameter,too-but I don't know if they've been turned already-how big's the difference in drum diameter?

 

There were 12" drums.

 

Don't the drums have a max turn dimension stamped on them?

 

Yes, these seem to although I'll have to clean them up. They have fins on them,not sure if all do or not.

 

Insert weren't in place of were..

 

I wish I knew where they came from. I pulled them off of a very wide 9" housing a few years ago. They have been in storage ever since. I will dig them out.

 

Unfortunately, Ford seldom had any two parts the same and most of the parts guys who know how to find the right parts using part numbers have long since retired. It will take some luck to find someone who can help you.

 

Just take a brake shoe to a NAPA store. I think all wheel cylinders are the same.
On mine the shoes are 2 1/4" wide for an 11" drum

 

Wheel cylinders may be different. My '70 Torino 9" takes 29/32" or 31/32" . There may be more

 

The wheel cylinder rubbers will [usually] have the diameter made into them. I grabbed a set off a 70 Merc Montery 9 inch and they were 15/16ths with 2.25'' X 11" brakes. Watch brake drum center hole size versus the register size on the center of the axle shafts. The big Merc drums had a big center hole and my aftermarket axle shafts have a small register...gotta get new drums!
Oh, and be careful of brake backing plate offset...most common were 2.5" offset for the 2.25" brake shoes but early ford 9 inch rears use skinny brake shoes with less offset to the backing plates.

 

9 inch axles were used in about everything from Mustangs to pickups. The brakes were tuned for the weight of the vehicle and the maximum payload. Pickups generally had larger diameter drums because they had larger wheels so larger diameter space for drums. Since you already have a set of drums and backing plates that match, once you get them working you can adjust the front to rear bias (which end skids first) by changing diameters of the wheel cylinder bores. Bigger bore will give you more application pressure. There should be a butt load of diameters available and most wheel cylinders are cheap. Rebuilts are often less than 15 bucks (10 years ago), many times they are cheaper than a kit.

 

I have 10" drums with 2" wide linings -looks from my books as most likely a mid-80's Crown Vic. NAPA lists hardware,wheel cylinders, shoes, adjusters for under $75 so I'd be ahead to replace them all. Now, I just need to get all the parts off and back together.

 

Ford had quit using the 9" in passenger cars before the mid-80's so you probably need to look for something earlier that has the 10 x 2 rear brakes.

 

Many of the small bearing 10"/11" drum brakes that came on later 8.8" rears will fit on s/b 8"/9" housings. I'm using mid '80s CV/Marquis/Town Car 10" brakes on two small bearing 9" housings.

 

No to disagree, since I don't know, but my 1989 Motor Auto Repair Manual lists the 1983-1988 Crown Victoria (except the SW) and the same years Mercury Marquis as well as the '85-88 Heavy Duty T-bird and Cougar and the Lincoln '83 MarkV as well as the 83-88 Town Car as using the 10" drums. Frankly, I don't really care as long as the new parts match up with the old ones and I just picked the CrownVic as a starting point.

 

Every car you've listed used the 8.8 rear axle. V8Bob said the brakes from a small bearing 8.8 will bolt onto a small bearing 9" housing, but he didn't say whether all the parts are interchangeable or if the entire assembly of backing plate, wheel cylinder, and shoes is a bolt on swap.

Parts sites also show none of those vehicles using 10 x 2 brakes. 10" yes, but none of them are 2" wide. Checking application by part number on a vehicle known to use 10 x 2 brakes on a 9" axle (a 69 Torino for example) shows no interchangeability between those shoes and wheel cylinders and any used on mid-80's Fords. All this would indicate that while the complete brake assemblies from the 8.8 axles might bolt on, they're not using individual components that are interchangeable with the ones used on 9" axles.

And frankly, if you need parts to replace those used on a 9" axle, it makes sense to pick a starting point where 9" axles were used.

 

All true-as I said, I don't know. So what I have are shoes that are 2" wide and 11" and 8.375" long and a wheel cylinder with the number 30006 on it plus 10" drums. Any idea what I've got? Thanks.

 

This is a list of Fords that all use the same 10 x 2 brake shoe.

FORD FAIRLANE (1962 - 1970)
FORD FALCON (1966 - 1970)
FORD GRAN TORINO 1972
FORD GRANADA (1975 - 1980)
FORD MUSTANG (1967 - 1973)
FORD RANCH WAGON (1963 - 1964)
FORD RANCHERO (1966 - 1972)
FORD TORINO (1968 - 1972)
MERCURY COMET (1966 - 1972)
MERCURY COUGAR (1969 - 1973)
MERCURY COUNTRY CRUISER 1963
MERCURY CYCLONE (1967 - 1971)
MERCURY METEOR (1962 - 1963)
MERCURY MONARCH (1975 - 1980)
MERCURY MONTEGO (1968 - 1972)

Some of these would have 8" axles rather than 9", but they still use the same shoes. All the 69 Torinos have a 9" and used the 10x2 shoes (among other sizes) so that would be a good starting point.

The wheel cylinder bore could be 7/8, 29/32. 15/16, or 31/32. The left and right wheel cylinders will be made different on the back side, so you need a left and a right.

You'd still need to take a pair of the shoes and a wheel cylinder with you to check the match up. And it'd be better to go to a parts house that's been around for a long time as opposed to Advance or Auto Zone since you'll have a better chance of getting someone who knows how to use the catalogs to match things up. Around here, the NAPA stores all have a full set of catalogs that they know how to use if necessary, even though they use a computer to access all the late model stuff because its quicker.

 

Metlmunchr,thanks. And now, here is where I confess to even more ignorance. I don't think I have a 9" rear end. . I was assured when I bought this project long ago that it was a 9" rear and I never had reason to doubt it. I was watching a video last night and the moderator mentioned that the 9" case was completely round, had an extra support rib on the driver's side front case and has hard to access lower case bolts. Since the opposite to these are on my rear, I suspect I don't really know what I have. I did re-find a tag with some numbers attached , but was dressed for work and couldn't access it to read. So I think I will say thanks to all for their input, apologize for wasting your time but increasing my car knowledge, and return once I have some real data to impart. Thanks to all for you patience.

 

Just post a picture. We'll ID it.

 

Yep. Should have started with that,huh? I'll pull the tag tonight.

 

No worries, you'll get there. To some people who are selling stuff, anything with a removable third member is a 9" Ford just the same as every SBC is a Corvette motor.

The ID tag is your best source to know exactly what you have. Also, here's a link to a page with pics of most every rear axle you could possibly run into.

http://www.differentials.com/technical-help/differential-identification

If it turns out to be an 8" Ford, several of the ones I posted previously would work as a starting point. For example, the 75-80 Granada definitely used an 8" axle. Also, most anything from the 60s or 70's using 10x2 brakes will have the same brake parts regardless of whether the axle is 8" or 9". The wheel cylinders would still have to be matched up by bore size since Ford used different bore sizes on the same cars in the same years to vary the rear brake force according to body type, optional equipment, and front-rear weight balance.

Your questions and threads like this one aren't a waste of time. It'll help you get the parts you need and probably help someone else down the line. IMO, that's where the HAMB functions at its best.

 

Post a picture of the outside of the whole pumpkin.

 

I recently went through the brakes on my 59 Ford Wagon, to which, in the past, I have added 79 Ford Thunderbird spindles to.
Out of curiosity, I looked up the part number of the 59, and the 79 rear wheel cylinders, since I run a 79 master cylinder.

Same part number wheel cylinders, for both cars!

 

Getting closer-bad light for the photos, but i pulled the tag. It reads:
WDW-AB 6LB
2 79 8 555D

From this and the Fordification website, I gather now that I have got a rear end from a 75-78 Grenada/Monarch with a 2:79 ration and an 8 inch ring gear? I haven't gotten a site to decode the 6LB or the 555D. If the B was really an 8, would this be built on 12/8/76? How about the plant code? Thanks

 

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