Reply to post #55. The reason the old process chrome lasted better was because of the labor intensive hand polishing that went into the part. Consider the grills on the 1950 GMC - first the grill was hand polished so it looked like it had been plated. Then it was copper plated. Then it was hand polished again. Then it was plated with the duplex nickel that was mentioned to over 6/10 thousandths thickness and finally several thousandths thickness of chrome. The end result was that the part could withstand many years of exposure to the elements. The corrosion resistance of the part was due to the thickness of the duplex nickel plate. Todays electroless nickel ( EN ) gives excellent corrosion resistance if it is over 6/10 thousandths thick on a highly polished surface. The quality of the plate is dependant on the chemistry of the bath - the plater and a plating chemist need to monitor the pH, the temperature, the nickel concentration and the hypo-phosphate concentration. It is true that nickel plate has a slight yellow tinge to it, but you need to hold a piece of chrome or stainless steel beside it see it. The EN may blacken with exposure to the elements but will respond to a mild metal polish. If you specify that the part you are having plated gets over 6/10 thousandths EN and you periodically use a good automotive wax or polish you should experience no corrosion or pitting
Yeah! You got me on that one. Sorry, I had a brain fart there. Chrome plating is very inefficient- it does not throw very well, hence the need for counter- electrodes to get into nooks and crannys. How many hours would it have to be in the tank to get several thousandths?
Back in '06 I needed to have the grille for my '35 roadster plated.I had the chrome shop strip it.I did all the prep(final sanding to 1200 paper) which took about 4 days.I buffed it the best I could before taking it to him.He went over my buff job then coppered it ,then buffed it and dipped it in the nickel then chrome tank.He charged me $150.
Most of the stuff we did had been chromed at one time. A brand new part usually doesn't take as much prep as an old one. If the part needs to be disassembled, that's done first, and that's an area the average guy could take care of ahead of time, as long as they know how to take a piece apart without damaging it. If it's real dirty or gross, it'll get a quick pre-blasting before being stripped, just to save wear on the stripping chemicals. Then stripped, then blasted again until it's perfectly clean inside and out. Then it'll be sanded/ground, pits filled with silver solder or welded if it's steel, a lot of hand work goes into that step, then copper, then sanded again, the copper can fill in tiny imperfections, like a fill primer, but not a whole lot, it's gotta be pretty close to "right" before copper. Then another copper coat, then buffing. It'll need to buff to a mirror finish at this point, any flaws will show through, sometimes multiple coats of copper are plated and sanded before the final buffing, once it's buffed, it gets a copper "strike", it's another layer but you don't buff or sand the strike, the part gets washed and goes right to nickel after the copper strike. It gets washed after nickel and then chrome plating, and each step has to have the part get racked and anodes positioned properly for the plating to "throw" over the part. It's an art, a lot of tedious fucking around to get it really right. That's why mass manufactured new parts can be done so cheap. They have a tank dedicated to each part, no special racking or anode movement required, no (or very minor) prep work of the base part, no need for several steps, and the new pieces are rarely as nice looking as a custom chrome shop job. We used to get brand new reproduction Mustang bumpers dropped off for us to rechrome, since our chrome looked so much better, but at least that way we had a nice clean solid core to work with.
Hi for all! If someone remember me, i posted there few years ago in forum about DIY "spray on chrome" topic. Ok, i still make this business on some interior parts, but now main product is real chrome! Ohh, we made chrome workshop and now we restore old car/bikes parts for shows. Some MB 190sl with mine chrome bumpers and interiors is running in USA too some photos... We have cyanide copper, bright copper, nickel, chrome! Ah yess, pain in the ass- pot-metal we chrome too! actually we chrome everything without stainless steel. some pictures...
I spent 10 years in business for myself building transmissions and rear ends for hot rods/race cars. Fun group to hang out with. I charged $150 to set up a loose rear end. Some thought that was a lot. I remember spending 8 hours chasing the perfect gear pattern. I remember torqueing a pinion so many times that I ruined 3 brand new pinion nuts. I did a chrome, aluminum, 9" Ford, with a chrome pinion nut and yoke for a Riddler car, that could not be scratched. I spent 3 days chasing that thing around my bench on a baby blanket. All my tranny builds were usually in the 5 - 6 hundred dollar range. Some thought that was too much. I remember the guy I told not to neutral a T-400 with a transbrake when shutting down. After crashing his car from neutraling after going through the eyes he said "the engine builder told him to" I remember the guy that told me his trans ran really hot. I went to the track only to watch him stand on the throttle at the line while his opponent was still in the water box. I remember the hurry up jobs I had money tied up in that sat on my floor for 2 months while I waited to be paid. I work for a school district bus garage now. Moral of the story? when I get the plating done for my hot rod, I'll pay what they want and buy the guys in the shop lunch.
I am with 31 Vicky. Nothing makes sense to me. I went to the same swap meet I have gone to for 30 years where I have looked at a chrome vendors displays that has been there for years and talked to people about their experiences with them and everything I have seen from them and heard about them was great. I finally get the guts to have my first parts chromed. I walk over to another vendor at the swap meet and buy a brand new pair of Bob Drake 40 Ford standard headlight rings, walk them over to the chrome vendor and tell him to chrome these new parts and ship them to me. I get them back and edges of the rings are apparently buffed till dips are in them. The areas where the screws go are thin and gold or copper colored ,there are a couple pin holes in the surface , when I say pin holes I mean more like fish eyes in paint and there is a wavy dip in the middle of one of the rings. This has left me feeling I am better off going back to buying what`s already chromed or doing without. As I said, all the other parts I saw from them for others looked great but I honestly couldn't believe they had the guts to send these to me.
Yup, this is long way But actually i know guy in mine country who make chrome parts for guys in USA. Shipping is not so cosmic price if u dont ship bumpers of course
Had a co worker that had a harley chrome plated at finishing touch , when it came back it was flawless , but the guy had $$$$ into the job and preprepped the work . that shop is known for for there restoration chroming . as for AMF s chrome its more than likely the shop that did it is now a superfund site in Milwaukee or Chicago now . when I hauled chemicals to them shops they were often old ( started in the 1920's ) and some still used the rotorty converters for power and the buildings were wood ( including the floors ) , and it smelled of arsenic and cyanide . one shop I used to go to when they closed they tore down the building (hauled it away in a enclosed trailer ) and had to dig out 10 feet of soil beneath the shop and parts of the neighboring yards and have it treated for the heavy metals and poisons . the new shops I visited by Ohare , are like surgurys spotless bright and clean . and the rackings were automated , but still they needed people to wire the parts to the racks and that was time consuming as it has to be done a special way .plus the inspection was by hand . and one of the biggest costs was envirourmental control (even the air has to be scrubbed ) , then electricity ( one place has a natural gas/ Diesel co gen unit to offset the electric costs ) , besides hauling in product , I hauled out the haz waste and often it had to go to special plants to be converted for safe disposal or renewed for another company to use . even the solid wastes they find a way to clean up .
Yess, electroplating is expencive - my baths is 220x100x100cm and electrolyte must be in correct temperature all the time. Electricity is expensive, chemicals too...! There that price for plating came from!
I had all the bright ware on my 35 Chevy phaeton done 15yrs ago and complained about it then. The cost was nothing in comparison to my 46 Olds! Lots more bright ware with larger pieces! You get what you pay for and the triple plate this time around on the Olds is a lot better than that on the Chevy. The crappy bars were sandblasted to remove all the scale before being dipped to strip the chrome. e.g. The grill was copper plated and buffed until all the imperfections in the pot metal were non existent. Preparation, like any foundation is the key to success, that's what you pay for and I can verify that. Given the environmental / health issues and licenses required (Cyanide) it is pretty cost prohibitive these days. Plus any stress related components (Jag IRS 1/2 shafts) requires heat treating (Certificate) to remove any hydrogen embrittlement; more $$$
Entire car with grill, front and rear bars, all external moldings and miscellaneous items including polishing all the stainless steel trims etc was over $AUD3K
In order to save $$$$ by doing your own you need to have a working relationship with a viable plating shop. There's also 2 different ways to do the work, and one of them will make aluminum and pot metal disappear like a David Copperfield show. As to knowing what you're doing? FUGGIN EH, YOU NEED TO KNOW. Good paint and body finishers have an advantage in that they can "see" a finished surface. Even the best and most reflective chrome is meaningless if you can't assemble the parts due to excess copper build. A good shop with a sterling (no pun intended) reputation will test fit parts as directed or requested. Those that specialize in certain stuff will test fit as part of their gig. At 1 local shop I can get a bumper plated for $400, at the other it's $1,500. The $400 bumper is actually perfect for a 60s car restoration. If you put the $1,500 bumper on it might look awesome but it's wrong. It's like the paint. Could you see yourself from 30' away in the side of your new GTO or Mustang in 1965? Today they get surfaced to the extreme and look more like a toy, but YOU have to decide where you're going when you begin the process. On 1 car that was recently restored I had no time to wait for a $1,500 bumper. I asked the $400 shop to go an extra mile in their finishing and they did. It was $100 more but the bumper went on and "only his hairdresser knows for sure". The car has won 3 perfect scores and 2 significant national awards. All the tech discussed can give one an understanding of the process, and yet today with water being sold for $1.00 a pint and gas for nearly $3.00 (and we all know it was way more recently) the cost to do breathless quality metal finishing seems too much. I don't get it. I used to pay $125-140/mo for electricity, now it's over $300. The tires for my truck will be $1,200 if I want something that will last. A top quality clear urethane package (gallon of clear, qt of catalyst) is near $400. "I only want a 'driver', not a show car..." is the call to arms, but where does the reduction in labor take place? Do I do shitty body work and metal finishing but good paint? How about good prep and shitty paint? Should the chrome shop pull back on polishing and leave pits and scratches? This stuff isn't being done every year, or even every 10 years. You do it once, do it right, enjoy it for decades with proper care and use. Is it all expensive? A relative term these days. The national average shop rate is about $75.00/hr. Some simply accept it, some cry "THIEF!!!", some tackle it themselves. YOU decide, but don't bag on cost too much unless the vendor fucks up. In closing, as to doing your own prep on things, when your peers spot that shitty prep work that doesn't live up to the current standard what will you say? Good guys will say "...I did my own (fill in your pick)...", but the average Joe will say "Yeah, So-n-So really screwed me on that..." and try to save face. Which one are you? I can never tell from my side of the sales counter.
my guess is that some of you cheap bastards take your own bacon and eggs to your favorite cafe and expect to get a super deal for them to just cook for you..
I sure do wish we could go back to the days when companies could poison people with unchecked willful abandon, so I could get my chrome done cheaper.
even in the 1990's when I went to these places I remember the metallic taste in my mouth for 2 -3 days afterwords just from breathing the fumes , and the guy in the shop telling me not to touch the purple or dark blue crystals near the baths .
Yep--And here's a big news flash. If you are thinking about chrome work you better do it now because the prices sure won't be going down. You know what they say about how competition helps the consumer. With all the shops that have folded in the last few years; current pricing will seem cheap in the future. Not to run off the tracks here, but people nowadays think nothing of it to pay 4 bucks for a cup of Starbucks (every day) and HUGE amounts of money for cel. phones and provider services, as well as subsidizing the Hollywood lifestyle with 10 dollar movie tickets but they cheap out when it comes to paying for services for what many claim to be their passion. Rant over.
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