Technical Champ Halibrand rear noise

Not suggesting that a Halibrand Champ is identical to a Winters Champ as in identical / interchangeability, but the similarities are obvious and I'm sure much of the general information applies to both, so you could digest this

http://www.wintersperformance.com/

Set up and FAQ stuff in the downloadable Street Rod catalogue.

I have a Winters Champ and if the adapters on the Hali are anything similar then the differential is a sealed unit and there's no fluid in the axle tubes, unlike a Ford banjo or a Hali v8 center. The wheel bearings will be the sealed for life type too.

I'd be interested in knowing the degree of similarity between the Winetrs and Halibrand if anyone knows.

Chris

 

Trying to understand this, "ring gear bearing retainer"?
Pinion bearing retainer, maybe?
How did you 'fix' it?

 

Yes there was gear oil in the diff. Yes I filled it back up. I'm capable of doing work on this car myself. It's just that I don't know anything about QC stuff.
Front rubber I just got changed, rear is in the process. Actually looking for tires but not having much luck with the size. Putting into gear, she clunks.

 

Yes pinion retainer, it was late last night when I wrote that.

 

I'd be pulling off the side bells once the axles are removed to check what's going on, it's only nuts & bolts, retain all the parts for each side separately & photograph as you go, It will be rewarding in the end to DIY it.

 

I think Magoo used the Jaguar differential in his rear ends. Do as Steve said and then you will become and expert on the QC rear axle. Also, that car should be kept in top condition as a Magoo built car has a place in history that most older folks know about. He is still alive living in Phoenix.

 

I agree with Pewsplace, after you solve the issue with the QC, spend some time cleaning the car and the suspension and make your grandfather proud.

 

Okay Lynn, you threw me a curve here. I didn't know there was a Jag differential that would work in a QC. Tell us more.

 

Isn't Jag (diff) stuff Dana?

 

Jason,
Before you pull the rear end out and apart, take out the change gears, and try to wiggle the pinion shaft (the top one) up and down and side to side. ANY movement means that it has to come apart.

Twist it back and forth. You should have minimal backlash. Halibrand said they can be as tight as .001".

If the pinion moves for and aft then you might be able to fix it by tightening the bearing retainer (the 7 screws around the pinion). If they are loose at all, you should take them out, clean the tapped holes in the case (carb clean). Slide the pinion retainer out. See if the pinion bearing is a ball type or roller bearing.
There were two pinion bearing plates. The earlier one (pre 1985) was for ball bearings. The depth from the small diameter end to the flange surface should be .785" the roller bearing one should be .920". It is rare, but I've seen the parts mixed up allowing the pinion to walk back in the case.
To reassemble use Loctite primer and red Loctite. Halibrand did not specify a torque but I use 25 in/lbs. If the pinion retainer is tight and you have too much backlash, you will have to disassemble the unit.

Drain the gear lube, both cavities. Pull the rear out of the car and get back here. WE WILL GET THIS FIXED!

 

I have never used one, but they are a Dana unit. Magoo and Tom Walsh both used these units in the 80's. I will have to find out more from Tom as I think he still uses them when he can find them. Machine work required - Champ only.
As you know, the differential is the hard part for the Champ rear end. Frank at Quickchange Exchange made them for Halibrand until them went BK and left him holding the inventory unpaid for…too bad as they were good units.

 

Yep, Frank is a great guy. I named my company Quickchange Exchange before I knew about him. That's why I added Gearhead's to it. The Diamond Track is my favorite. Does he have any NOS units?

I'm curious about the Jag diffs. What years and what models? Are they open or limited slips?
Check your PMs.

 

Man you guys are all so cool. I will go ahead and check the pinion shaft, pull the axles and check all the stuff like you suggested. My goal to this car is to get it back in top notch shape, take it to shows and have the sentimental reward. I live in Vancouver, Wa and we have the Rod Run in August I would love to attend.

 

Something I should explain in a little more detail:
When checking the backlash, .001" is barely perceptible. If you can feel it click from side to side noticeably, it is probably too much.

 

Any luck on this video? The noise has only been described a s "horrible" and "clicking". I'm not ready to have you take this whole rear end apart just yet, just not enough information.

Send me the video if you want.

[email protected]

-Abone.

 

I sent the video to you Abone! Thanks for watching it!

 

Hope this works..

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=4987963950D712D1&id=4987963950D712D1!117&v=3

Sounds like an axle bearing. I would do both side axle bearings first as they are cheap and fairly easy. If that doesn't do it, then we start taking stuff apart. Also, are you SURE it is coming from the rear?

-Abone.

 

One more thing... most of the time a funky differential will make noise when turning a corner, your video looks like you are going straight. Try axle bearings first.

-Abone.

 

Link didnt work Abone,good advice though.

 

While on the subject ,do those big back meats put a big strain on bearings like i imagine they do ?

 

Jason, your thread got me going on learning about my champ rears. Thanks! I'm by no means an instant expert but I believe the drilled holes in your outer axle tubes are just air vents. The diff gets hot when it's going down the road and the air wants to expand. There are vent holes on the champ (inner)side covers about halfway up. They vent the hot air into the axle tubes but they are sealed so they were drilled to let the hot air out of the whole axle assembly. I don't see any other way hot air can vent to the atmosphere, so that's my theory .....but it's just that,a theory
Oh, for bearing noise, generally, if you turn right and the noise increases it's the left bearing and vicy versy.

 

I will do the axle bearings for sure. Problem is, finding them. Looked at auto part stores and can't find them. I will look at bearing place then have them pressed on.

 

Yes I'm sure it's coming from the rear. I thought maybe exhaust leak but realized it's not and its coming from the wheel area.

 

O'Reilly list a bearing with that number ...

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d....oap?ck=Search_N2494_-1_-1&pt=N2494&ppt=C2389

 

Sweet. No auto place here can get them. I just ordered 2 from that site. I appreciate the link!!

 

Make sure you get the collar too.

 

I don't want to sound stupid here but you are aware that the quick change with the flat gears is going to make noise. Mine makes enough noise if your are riding behind me you can hear it. I don't care what you do with straight cut gears there will be noise.

 

By the way really cool car. Magoo at one time set the bar high. Fix it and enjoy.