So I am looking to upgrade some of our tooling, in terms of valve guides we are still knurling them (don't want this to turn into a discussion of pros/cons on different types of processes). Would like to purchase a kit from K-Line for installing bronze liners. Probably 90% of the heads we do will be SBC, the heads we are building right now are 041's and valve stem diameter is about 11/32...so do I order the 11/32 kit?? http://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/kl1601nx.html I called and talked to their person on the phone but to be honest I don't know if I was asking the right questions and don't know if we were on the same page... This will be the first time I've driven in liners as well so I am learning right along with the kids... Thanks-
Go to your local speed / machine shop and "axe" em! I think most would tell ya straight, at least in Texas that's true.
Those 'liners' are a POS. A local rebuilder (since out of business due to quality issues) used to use these and they don't hold up well even in stock applications.
K line guide liners are good... installed thousands of them. Get the 11/32 kit and a few different size broaches.
lol.. well installed and sized correctly they work fine.... Doubt I would have stuck with them for all those years if they were a POS
None of the local performance-orientated shops would use them and would laugh when you showed up with a set of heads with these in them... 'Got those from T or W rebuilders, right?'
I have liners in several race heads with no problems, including a set that the shop just said to me, "Let us show you how to use our tools then you can just do it yourself when we are too busy to help you". I recently acquired my own guide liner tooling from a friends estate sale. I also have the tooling to do press-in guides so I can go either way.
I know one of them used K-line because when I had issues with a motor from them (that was still within warranty) they mentioned 'talking to K-line about it' to resolve the repair. Now granted, this is quite a few years ago and they may have improved them since then, but it left a bad taste nonetheless... I ended up getting another set of heads and having those rebuilt by a different shop after listening to a bunch BS from the shop about just what the trouble was. These were on a stock-spec 302 Ford in a early Cougar my mother drove, so it wasn't like it was beat on...
I installed literally thousands of K- Line or the equivalent liners since the mid 80's and if there was a quality issue or a shop said they were a POS I would say that it was entirely installation error or operator error. It is easy to blame a poor finished product on anything else but the machinist's lack of skill.
I agree. I have also installed thousands of them. Many in race heads. I do a lot of left turn heads.. I get mine from Goodson and my Engine Pro jobber..
I have done 1000's of liners and they work quite well. To answer the question about the kit you need to purchase with the appropriate carbide sizing ball or broaches. Yes you need a 11/32" kit.The kit won't be cheap. You will need at least 3 to 4 broach's,install kit,tool to remove bronze guides,trimming tool and more.Call Goodsen and talk to the tech dept. T
We used lots of K-Line guideliners. The way most shops get into trouble is using a liner with too big inside diameter for the valve. Such as .344" liner for a .3405" stem. The broach won't "set" the guide tight in the head. We used the #1959STA liners for .340 to .341" stems. It is a good idea to install the liners before cutting for positive seals. When the guide boss is thin in the seal area it can crack. Done properly the liners are a very good repair. There can be compatibility problems with iron guides and stainless valves. Thick wall bronze guides change size with heat cycles so they need more clearance.
Changing the entire guide is not that hard to do either. Unless the liners "bronze" properties are what your after. I grew up in a full service machine shop & for over 30 years determined It's a matter of what you the "machinist" prefer, but having the ol' Peterson seat & guide machine with all the attachments made it seem like no big deal. If all I had was hand tools it might be different. The properties "hot & cold" expansion of the valve guides materials bronze, silicates, etc. varies quite a bit. My experience has been 99% with bronze full replacement guides. Always been Leary of the liners because so many locally had them put in by a novice. Not to say they're not ok cause I've had set in some old 461x heads in my first dirt car. But it's really a matter of preference. Try Bark's equipment in Cape Geradeau, Mo. barksequipment.com He can answer any of your questions About the K-Line items & is a good guy with great service! Decades of experience & Knows his stuff. Good luck! Flux
Thanks for all the advise, think I will pull the trigger on the K-Line deluxe 11/32 kit, it appears to have all that we will need...
Those weren't the "liners" that were used with stock valves that had had the stems turned down to a smaller diameter were they? I worked for a shop in Yakima that did those and sold rebuilt heads but is out of business now. They made it near impossible for someone to replace a valve in the field if the engine got worked on later.
Those liners have been in some of the fastest hotrods on the planet! Quality product...works well. Believe me racers won't use a POS unless it's a dire emergency. And generally, when you're forced to, the car hands it back to you in a matter of feet!
Yes. When you install the bronze sleeve you will still need to clearance it a little bit but the 11/32 kit is sized for 11/32 valve stems.
I would sure look around ,my guess is you could buy a used setup with a bunch of tooling cheaper than buying new.
I neglected to mention that on the standard everyday street heads we would use the ball broaches to get the clearance, they also tighten the fit between the factory valve guide and the liner, the tighter the fit the more heat will transfer away from the valve. For high performance work we would use broaches for the same purpose but leave the ID smaller than the valves, from that point on the guides would be honed withb a Sunnen valve guide hone with plenty of honing oil flow. Sizing was with a dial bore gauge set that would measure small diameter holes They have a ball end and a (.0001) gauge for accuracy. The honed finish is really the best but I have the tools to do it, should a shop not have the honing & measuring equipment I would not expect them to invest in them for one job, have them broached all the way.
Anyone still using the Bronzewall guides from Goodson.? The guide was tapped and a spring- like bronze insert was threaded in and broached.
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