37-38 Buick trans with early olds gears etc

F&J, thanks again for the photos.

I have a line on a 48 Roadmaster trans I may just have to get it and see what I can make of it.
I believe the 56 Hot Rod Article mentioned the 40-48 gears because the meshed with the Olds' longer shaft. Which really doesn't apply to my application because I will be running a Ford torque tube. Although I'm still not sure if the 40-48 gears will work with the other parts I have particularly the output shaft that has been machined to accept the Ford joint. (If that is what I actually have),

 

If that donor trans can be looked at in person, take your output shaft to compare it's spiral splined part. The angle of how it is twisted, should be obvious if it is wrong. It would be easy to take the 6 bolt cover off on the sellers trans, if he will let you.


I thought about getting a GM Buick parts book, but it would only show part number changes, and won't tell what the change was.

When I asked on a Buick site, a guy looked up the numbers of all the 37 gears/shafts....he said one part fit 37 only, another part fit 37 and 38, and another fit up to 39...very confusing.

 

When I asked on a Buick site, a guy looked up the numbers of all the 37 gears/shafts....he said one part fit 37 only, another part fit 37 and 38, and another fit up to 39...very confusing.[/QUOTE]

I had read the same information. Confusing and a little discouraging!

 

Follow up.
Was lucky enough to stumble onto another Buick trans.
This one looks pretty complete and has been machined for the Ford torque tube.
The latest trans has a different casting number on the side?
F&J you mentioned in old post that there should be two springs and two balls under the lid?
I also saw you on an old AACA post, where you were looking for to buy a 37 trans, if you still have it can you post the casting number on the side.

 

I'm looking at the insides of the unpainted one; I haver never seen syncro rings like that....ever.

Did you test fit the Ford U-joint spline on the new trans yet? The reason I ask is that the Buick is also 6 spline, but a bit bigger.

I think I have 2 cases I can look at in the AM for casting numbers, and I thought I posted the case number here on the 37 that is in my 32ford...(that I can't see now)

I don't recall looking for a 37 Trans on AACA, that might have been Walt from VT, I think his AACA name is Wogden? I use the same name there as here. I did find my first 37 there on classified for sale ad, and that seller checked an old Hollander to trace the casting number...he said it comes back as 37 only, for some reason.

I get back here after I sort those cases out.

I will get a measure off of a stock spring; not a big problem, as you can look at generic "compression" springs at a decent hardware store. The stiffer it is, the firmer the detent click will be. Balls I thnk are standard 3/8" which decades ago could also be found at a hardware store, but not now, I guess.

Good score...no..great score

 

Frank, could the internals be the later Buick gut? 3/8 balls are available at your local machine shops. I buy them up here at a $1.00 a peice.

Good score on the Buick tranny for sure.!!

 

I don't know, maybe I spoke too soon, but they just jumped off the page for me. The flat area on the OD is what I don't recall. I will look at some syncros I have.

I have not had a stock 37 syncro since I got my first trans, and I was so excited to do the swap, that I started ripping it apart before the UPS guy left the driveway. I then sold the stock guts on ebay. Maybe I have pics of them, but I don't recall seeing them in my pic folders

 

From page one on this thread, by me. This was the trans from AACA seller IDed as 37 only.

 

Steel A Rod; here is a pic of the detent spring and 2 inputs. The long input is Olds selector 51-up, and the short one is definately 37 stock Buick. I put these up in case yours have been swapped.

On the 37, it has a groove to hold a cork O-ring, to keep oil off of the clutch. I am pretty sure Buick later switched to a conventional spiral cut into the shaft, to grab the oil and send it back to the trans.

37 measures from bearing face to tip of pilot: 6.5"
Olds " " " " is 7-11/16"

I believe all the brands of old-aftermarket adapters to do flathead motor to buick trans were based on the short size. I believe buick used short shafts for many years...but i can't verify that.

I know the long shaft is needed for Olds/Cad engines. I think the 1956 HRM tech had a short input for their 55 chevy sbc car? They modded the stock tri-5 bell to fit the buick trans.

The detent springs. you need 2 identical, and 2 balls. One rail sits lower in the trans, so when you put in both balls and both springs, one spring will be sticking up a lot more. Look at the top cover; there is a clearance hole drilled, for the one that sticks up too much. The other side of cover is not drilled.

When you put the cover on for good; it is best to leave both springs out while you peek under the cover to align the shift lever tang. Then set the cover flat on the trans. Put one side middle bolt in by a couple threads. Then lift just the opposite side to sneak the spring into it's hole. Then make sure you come straight down with the cover and start that side middle bolt. Then go take the other middle bolt out to sneak that spring in. The problem you are avoiding is that if you try to squish the cover down on both springs while keeping the tang in place, the cover slides around and can bend the springs off to one side.

Spring measures:

1.200 long on a used original.
.340 diameter (as long as it is under 3/8" by enough that it does not bind in the hole as you compress it, would be fine)

The diameter of the spring steel wire that it's made of is .055. Like I said before you are setting the tension on the detents. Way too soft may let it fall out of gear on a bump. Way too stiff will shift hard as the ball tries to ramp.

Found some notes on case numbers I have had.
1298438-2
1289505-2
1289500-2

Top covers all the same except for suffix: dash 1 or dash 2. 1289505-

 

F&J, thanks for the info.
Looking at the photos of the two shafts, I think the one in my complete trans may be the Olds shaft. I wasn't exactly sure where you measured from. But the shape sure looks like the Olds part. After looking through a Hollander book it looks like the #1289500 is a '36 Buick case. And with both of mine and least one of your shifter plates being numbered #1289505, I would assume the top plates were cast in '36?
On the tail end of my complete trans(the blue one) you can see where the holes were drilled for the Ford mount, and the unused Buick holes have been plugged.
The joint that came with my red trans fits the output shaft on the blue trans and the shaft that came with the red trans, although it seems like there is just a hair of play on both. Tried the same joint on two Ford trannies, and it seemed like it would go on but it was very tight. Not sure what all this means and still not sure the blue trans will work on my 248 ST8.

 

This thread is full of new surprises for me; I have never seen that big hex nut on an input shaft before, and I see what looks like a slip-on TOB guide tube on the bench that looks like sheet steel? rather than cast? The Buick cases I have had, were a bolt on tube/bearing retainer, as they had threaded holes....but each one was missing. On the Olds/Cad swaps, the Olds tube is used anyways, so I did not care.


I measured my input shafts to the face of the front case bearing location. I did not have bearings on either, so i measure to the rear edge of where the snap ring touches the face of the bearing.


That input is not Olds. I wonder if it could be the "40-48 Buick" parts? or could it be a 36 input? I am positive it is not 37

On the 36 case number. I always wanted to know why an old aftermarket gasket set lists "36-60" buick. I never heard of using a 36 trans, but figured if the gaskets must be the same, the case should look familiar.

 

Use good light and look inside/between the u-joint splines and output shaft as you try to find out why it has play. I wonder if the OD is wrong? maybe machined wrong on the Ford mods? I thought I recently posted the OD of the 37 output spline? ...but I thought it was quite larger than ford?

Can you measure OD of both inputs and post...I will compare with what I can find.


The blue trans almost looks like it was never run since painted? at least going by the rear flange area, it looks like it never saw a gasket.

i wonder if it's a 36 with 36 guts, that's my best guess.

 

F&J,
I finally dug out the 5 bolt trans that came with my 248 ST8.
The input shaft on the '37 5 bolt is the same length and diameter as the input on the blue six bolt trans. the only difference from the case out is a small amount of threads for the large nut.

Yes, the TOB guide on the blue trans is stamped steel, and on the 5 bolt it is cast.
If you look close you can see that both of the 6 bolt cases have had the cast TOB guide mounting holes closed up (factory done??)

It looks like the '37 5 bolt and the '36 6 bolt have a input shaft diameter of about 1 7/32". Th 5 bolt also had the springs and balls still in place, and they fit right into the six bolt case.

Looks like the 6 bolt trans shouldn't be too hard to mount up to the small ST8.
Just need to redrill the bell housing for the two lower mounting bolts and maybe two through holes for the rails to slide through.

The u-joint that fits the out put shaft on the red and blue trans appears to be the right diameter but the splines on the shaft are a hair narrow, which cases a little movement.

 

On a 37 trans, you only need to drill one hole in the bell for the 1/R rail. I bore a bigger hole in the bell to press in a cup shape freeze plug with sealer, so it won't weep oil into the bell.

Also, the gasket kit shows a full face gasket to cover the entire front of the trans face; "fits-all kit" 36-60 Buick. I don't have a Buick shop manual to know if it was needed on the 30s trans application, but it is needed with the Olds setup, and later buick selectors that use a slip on TOB tube.

I think would run that face gasket, even if you put a gasket under a bolt-on TOB guide tube, as oil can weep out of both rails. (leaks would come out of the joint of the bell/trans faces)

Just prefit the trans, tube, and gasket to the bell to see if the gasket is too thick or too thin. If it was too thin, and if the tube sits in a machined groove in the bell, that tube might hold the trans slightly away from the flat surface of the bell-to-trans faces. You may need to eliminate a gasket under the guide tube, if it holds the trans away from the bell slightly.

 

F&J, thanks again for the useful tips.
Haven't had the time to mount the 6 bolt trans to the small ST8. Hopefully soon.
Really just in the parts gathering stage on this project.

 

HEY! I had one just like this,back in the 60,s. I got it from the B&M trans shop in L.A. I think they got it from a customer that went to opendrive. I sold it to a buddy who used it behind a 364 Buick nailhead in his 30 Model A, it worked good. A friend of mine said there was a shop that did that to Buick and Cad side shifters, baknthday.

 

Frank,
thanks again for this great thread!

yesterday I followed step by step with the exception of instead of drilling out the locator pin(s) I drove them into the shafts like my Olds manual described..

great stuff and very helpful!

 

Garage is looking a little cluttered Paul! You can send that trans you just converted over to me. Looks like you might bang your shins off it...

Seriously though, good looking set up. What Olds donor trans did you use? Or are all 51-56 pretty much the same tail shaft?

 

The Olds donor was the original stick attached to the same '58 in the pictures.
They do vary a bit from year to year,
Frank gives sound advice when he says to find and use a complete set of parts from one transmission if you can.

 

I've been following this thread as well.
Here is my 37/38 tranny, 56 olds tailshaft. All Buick on the front side as I am mating this to a 322 nailhead

My 32 originally had a 37 buick tranny with the closed drive buick ball Adapted to the ford torque tube by just whacking the ford parts off and welding the Buick stuff on!





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That's what Don Montgomery told me he did with the Buick trans that went behind the 12 port Jimmy in his old 32 3 window race car.

 

I have the modified drive shaft, but not the rest of the torque tube housing. I'd have to look but I think 8-10" of the Buick was welded to the Ford. Probably wouldn't balance up that well.

 

Balance smalance, it'd still be a great setup.

 

Thanks Paul. I have a complete 51 trans under the bench in the garage. Someday, I'll find a 37 Buick trans to go with it.

 

Roadsir, how did you make out with sourcing speedo gear parts for that 56 tail shaft?

 

All set F&J came through with everything I need. Just need to do a little assy!
Thanks for checking

Eric


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Glad to hear that Frank was able to dig up the parts. You have a killer set up now.

 

Basically, when I started to get into the transmission swaps in 50's and were in the era of big overhead valve engines against weak drivelines. We were asking all the questions that we are asking here now. I hate to put a wet blanket on the subject but as soon as the more modern drivelines became available we went to full syncro, heavy duty, open drivelines, as fast as we could! I didnt need to have a spare trans sitting in the garage anymore. Gads I recall them days, guys who installed a 322 Buick in a duece, would blow the whole trans out the bottom just stepping on the gas in high gear, even flatheads would strip main gear like a corn cob. I guess Im just an old fart that experienced the traditional days, also harder to check drivelines these days.

 

to you sir I reply with a poem: