In the "3/8's Bore flathead" post "dirty old man" posted this : Rather than hi-jack that thread, I decided to start a new one. There was a thread about a year ago on the "32-53 Flathead" site. That thread was about a Japanese "mini-sub" with what looks like a ford flathead in the aft compartment that was used as power. This is the second time I have come across this in two different frames of reference, so there may just be something to it. Did Ford have any plants in the far east that may have come under Japanese control and used for war production such as this? Who knows? Maybe another source of flatheads/parts stashed in some Asian backwater? Anyone?
Wow! It appears to be a 33-36 21 stud engine. So it makes you wonder what year the sub was produced and for what use.
"Perhaps one of the most interesting uses for ol’ Henry’s original V-8 was in World War II midget submarines, even by the Axis powers. This Japanese Navy midget sub was captured by US forces – take a good look at what powered it through the water!" http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-article/Ford’s Famous Flathead-75386.xhtml
Henry ford was sympathetic to the fascists before we entered the war, is it possible he sold some engines and other parts to the axis powers before the United States entered the war?
I remember reading some Honda history about companies buying american cars and engines that were not yet assembled, putting them together to sell and making notes to make there own. Seems like Honda was a piston ring manufacturer.
The Japanese were great at reverse engineering. I used to run a Komatsu dozer that was very Catterpillar-like. Instead of a cloned Cat engine, it had a cloned Cummins Diesel. Actually a pretty good piece of equipment. Maybe they cloned flatheads too.
Doing a quick search I found this. HRP The Ford Motor Company of Japan was established in 1925 and a production plant was set up in Yokohama. General Motors established operations in Osaka in 1927. Chrysler also came to Japan and set up Kyoritsu Motors. Between 1925 and 1936, the United States Big Three automakers' Japanese subsidiaries produced a total of 208,967 vehicles, compared to the domestic producers total of 12,127 vehicles. In 1936, the Japanese government passed the Automobile Manufacturing Industry Law, which was intended to promote the domestic auto industry and reduce foreign competition;[5] ironically, this stopped the groundbreaking of an integrated Ford plant in Yokohama, modeled on Dagenham in England and intended to serve the Asian market, that would have established Japan as a major exporter[citation needed]. Instead by 1939, the foreign manufacturers had been forced out of Japan. Vehicle production was shifted in the late 1930s to truck production due to the Second Sino-Japanese War.[6][7][8] For the first decade after World War II, auto production was limited, and until 1966 most production consisted of trucks (including three-wheeled vehicles). Thereafter passenger cars dominated the market.
very interesting thread. the sub is bad ass, wonder what they were used for and how fast the flathead took it?
The sub is cool for sure, but I'd really like more information on the tanks. If we could use Caddy flatheads in tanks, it makes sense that they could use a version of a Ford in them as well.
There was two miniature japanese subs that attacked Australian waters in WW11, and i believe one was found about two years ago in /outside Sydney harbour, i don't recall if it was salvaged but maybe some of the oz military guys can confirm,i wonder if they had flatheads? Johnny
Just did a search apparently there was three mini subs! one got caught in a torpedo net and destroyed, a second was also destroyed, these two were used too make one complete unit which apparently is held at the national war museum in Canberra! it toured the country in the 40,s. the third recently discovered wreck is what i mentioned! Any hot Rodders in Canberra seen this? Johnny
I've spent more time today than makes sense searching for info on flatheads in Japanese tanks. So far I haven't found any mention of them. It seems they mostly had Mitsubishi Diesel engines, the Japanese were pioneers at using diesel in industrial applications because of its lower risk of fire. The only non Mitsubishi engine I saw mentioned was a Franklin air cooled 6, and that was very early in the war and before the U.S entered. Somebody here must know something!
I did a little more research and found that Ford had a plant in Yokohama from 1921 until the war started. Ford was also in serious negotiations with Nissan (and later Toyota) to enter into a joint venture to build a plant to build 40,000 trucks and buses a year in 1939 and 1940. This obviously came to nothing. Nevertheless, this lends credence to the possibility that Japan had access to Ford flatheads for wartime use. Any Japanese HAMBer's?
Is that sub traditional though? Was a thorough search done before asking the question? Lol! Cool for sure! Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
That Komatsu engine probably was a Cummins. There is a joint venture, KCEC, which stands for Komatsu-Cummins Engine Plant. Our Cummins plant makes and ships heads and blocks to that site.
I can add Japanese copy motorcycles to the list. My dad had an up close and personal battle with a Harley clone.. Dad's Bomb Group moved into the former Japanese airstrip at Hollandia in New Guinea. Rummaging around, they found what they thought was a Harley, but had Japanese markings on it. They got it running and used it for going back and forth on the flight line. One day dad got bounced of the back of it. Needless to say the old man got torn up pretty good and ended up in the hospital.. He carried an absolute hatred for motorcycles after that!
Damn! Looks like I started something with that post on the other thread! Might as well subscribe over here on this one too! Wish I could get one of the 2 brothers (of each other, not me) to corroborate my story, but they're both passed on years ago.
I believe it was declared a war grave, you can't go near it (500 metres). Sub M24 still has unexploded ordnance on it? The wreck was found by recreational divers in deep water 3 nautical miles (5.5 km) off Sydney's north coast near Pittwarer.http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/M24/ Insofar as that flattie powered sub was concerned, you would have heard it coming, chug chug chug.
Harleys were built in Japan on a lease agreement during the depression years. This was one thing that kept harley afloat during these hard times............................................................................................................... As far the mini subs. at pearl harbor !0 mini subs were deployed . all had a gyroscope problem and crashed/sunk. One crew man survived named Kazuo Sakamori and was the first prisoner of war. Sorry my book only has pictures of the outside of the sub. These subs were 78 foot long and 6 feet wide. Would 85 horse power move one of these subs?????
I believe the sub k9racer is talking about is at the Nimitz/Bush museum in Fredricksburg, TX. You could find more info about that one in the picture.
Thats 1 of 2 pics dad took of the sub laying next to the Detroit Light Gaurd Armory. I'll find the other pic.
I don't know about Ford flatheads, but Toyota built the Chevrolet Stovebolt Six on license before and after the war.
I do believe that flathead sub is in actuality, a Japanese attempt of combining an old drop tank and Ford flathead V-8 engine, for entry into the Bonneville Speed Trials (tongue-in-cheek). But seriously, was this sub fully submersible, and how did it handle intake/exhaust issues/cooling issues? Maybe it's like those drug cartel, partially submersible subs of Mexico and South America. Interesting just the same. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
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