Technical Can you flip the brake cylinders on early ford brakes?

I'm have clearance issues with the rear spring hanger and the brake cylinder on my banjo rear. Well, the interference is more with the line coming into it than the cylinder.

Is it possible to flip them? That would allow the brake line to come in/out at a different angle and would work. Not sure if this is possible or if it causes issue with getting them to bleed and having the different sized bores facing opposite direction.

Thanks,

Tim

 

Some guys flip the entire backing plate upside down. Check the archives.

Charlie Stephens

 

You do not want to flip them since there are two different piston bores. Having the larger bore in the wrong direction can affect the brake function. As Charlie said, you can mount the backing plates upside down, but it may be better to redrill the plates to rotate them only enough to gain some clearance.

 

I would assume just so they could move vertically up or down and not cocked on an angle?

 

I think Fritz meant (as I would suggest) that you rotate the entire backing plates. He was not talking about just moving the cylinders.

Charlie Stephens

 

Correect. I rotated mine enought to clear the spring hanger and had no problem bleeding them. I know Kris @loudpedal ran some upside down

 

Here's how I did this one: The large bore of the wheel cylinder was still mounted tward the front of the car. You have to crack the brake pipe fitting to bleed the brake though, as the bleeder screw is on the bottom. It works just fine.

 

one more picture.

 

Love it. Thanks guys. Makes sense.

 

I was thinking you can flip just the cylinder upside down, you just have to swap right and left so the bore faces the right way.

Am I wrong?

 

Logic says the same to me but I don't have those parts in my hand.

 

I am inclined to agree with this approach. The idea of flipping the backing plates to place the cylinder at the bottom is in effect reversing the direction of operation of the shoes.
The original arrangement of the long shoe at the front and short shoe at the rear assumes a particular direction of rotation and wheel cylinder placement. The long shoe at the front is the lead shoe and does most of the work . Drum brakes by there nature are self-energizing. That is , in the case of the lead shoe when travelling forward this shoe is pulled into the drum, whereas with the rear shoe the drum tends to push it away. Of course if you reverse the direction of rotation such as when in reverse gear then the rear shoe effectively becomes the lead shoe and vice versa.

All of this is why there are long shoes and short ones , large bore and small bore. The end result of the swap in the video is to have the shoes working in reverse. The short shoe is now the lead shoe. Overall there is a loss of braking efficiency with this change. This is the effect of swapping side to side. Whilst the access points for the parking brake are retained the function of the brakes as originally intended is not. The only way to retain the correct brake function is to leave the backing plate on the side it was originally fitted. To fit the cylinder at the bottom simply rotate the entire backing plate through 180 deg . Of course this puts the bleeder screw at the bottom . That of course is another problem. With the aid of a hose to the wheel cylinder the brakes could be bled before the fitting of the backing plate. Alternatively you investigate swapping the locating of the bleed screw with the feed pipe. Also the access for the park brake is lost as the access is now at the rear and not the front.

 

Ok so swap the shoes

 

31 Vicky, if you swap the shoes around after flipping the backing plates as in the video then you will end up with the small end of the wheel cylinder pushing the long shoe. That isn't right either. The way I mentioned is the only way you can keep the original arrangement intact. As mentioned that puts the bleeder at the bottom.

 

I really might be missing something and am certainly at a loss because I don't have the parts in front of me.

Rotate backing plate to hole on bottom.
Left wheel cylinder moves straight down bleeder up and bores are correct front to rear.
Switch shoes front to back but bottoms up and the leading shoe is now correct.
Does this not physically fit together?

 

31Vicky , This is effectively the same result as in the video. The result is correct in terms of large end of cylinder pushing against the long shoe. Long shoe to the front . The problem now is the direction of rotation . The long shoe is now the trail shoe not the lead shoe. Just because the shoe is at the front doesn't mean it is leading.

 

Gotcha.
The swap cylinders left to right?

 

31Vicky, Anyway you look at it if the anchor bolts are at the top because of flipping the backing plate then the lead shoe will be the one at the back . This means it will need to be the long shoe. This means the cylinder needs to be orientated to place the large end to the long shoe at the rear. However that result can be achieved will do the job . The only way I can see that being achieved will put the bleeder at the bottom.

On reflection as mentioned by 31Vicky swapping cylinders left to right should fix the problem. That still leave you without a parking brake.

 

That was my original intent to just flip flop cylinders. I will also need to look at the parts in hand. Also, brakes are important without question, but could the rears take a different shoe arrangement since they arent doing the "heavy lifting" when it comes to stopping the car? The fronts are doing majority if the work.