Technical hot rod machinist!

hi. im 19 years old and studying to become a machinist. I think its something I will be good at, but im also looking forward to use it to my benefit in the hotrod/racing world. thought I would start a thread to allow fellow machinists to show the rest of us cool ways that they have used their skills to modify and improve their ride. post some pics and tell us about it!

 

Be sure to become the best machinist you can become - a master of your craft - not just a machine operator. Learn all about CNC, programming and stay on the "cutting edge" of technology in the field - always upgrading your skills and knowledge. Only photos are this 5 1/2 in. dia. 6061 aluminum fan hub & pulley and the "classic" 16 inch brass cannon, but others will provide more. I really miss not having any machine tools.

 

No pictures to show...but there are not many skills as important as machinist skills...I learned first in Jr. High (heck, it beat Roman literature!)...and continued when I worked at Blair's. I machined king pins axle housings, valley covers (cast and then milled), rear end housings (chamfered the ends when narrowing)...

I agree with 19fordy, keep up with the latest in CNC, but also learn the more traditional lathes, mills, broaching, etc...because you can't always use computers to replace skill...he's right on the "become a master of your craft..." too many machinists were just lathe turners or drill press operators...real machinist stuff also takes creativity into account...what would you use when something breaks and how would you use it? I used to spend hours watching the guys at Tim Timmerman's "Tim's Precision Engines" in Pasadena CA, or Henry's Machine Shop in Torrance, and especially Cook's Machine Shop on Telegraph in LA...those guys were the real masters!!

 

Best experience you can gain is to work in a job shop as well as working in an automotive machine shop. You have to be careful with CNC that you don't go to work for someone who puts you to work as an operator, then all you do is sit in front of a machine all day watching it run.

I don't have any photos on this computer, but most of my stuff don't come off the shelf.

 

Be versatile. All our guys can run any machine in the shop. The machining trade is a feast or famine career. In the 80s and 90 you could name your wage...not so much anymore but still not a bad living. Here are a couple things I have made. The dash and wheel. I can't remember how many pieces I've made after hours for friends and myself. Very rewarding.

 

The other end of machining...craftsmanship using hand tools. This was the beginning exercise in freshman machine shop class in high school, in the 1970s. Started with a 1/4" x 1" hot rolled steel bar, used hand tools and a drill press to make it look like this. I don't have much other stuff to show on my cars, just a few odds and ends that are mostly hidden, but I used my lathe and mill quite a bit building my latest hot rod. Bushings, spacers, plates, etc. You can poke around on my web page and see what you can find, there should be a link to it in my signature.

 

Learn how to set the jobs up, how to use all the machine shop equipment, how to sharpen special tools, how to figure out speeds and feeds with out a computer to punch the numbers into. Everyone is teaching CNC, but that is about programing and button pushing.
I always had to laugh when we got a new kid in that had "been to school", give them a chunk of steel and a drawing and they were screwed. Someone else was supposed to "program" it, they just wanted to push the go button.
Do yourself a favor, find a machine shop school book from about 1940, read it and learn it on your own, then go to school so you get a piece of paper saying you know CNC, then you'll be a useful machinist.
Hope we haven't scared you off, I made an enjoyable living for 30 years doing it.

 

I was fortunate to get into a NY state run tool & die apprenticeship program back in 1981. The best students got the plum jobs. I wound up in the R&D shop for a local defense contractor. It was a sink or swim type of job and you had to be fast and accurate, or be out on the street. You did the jobs from start to finish, milling, lathe work, brazing, it was sometimes combined on a single part.

I still do a lot of machining on the side for a good buck. I also set up one guy's CNC mills when he needs me to come in.

One of the biggest things to know is your shop math. You should be able to rattle off decimal equivalents of fractions, know trig cold, etc. I also know lots of CNC machinists who never ran manual machines. These guys get themselves in big trouble now and then missing that knowledge. I myself haven't programmed anything in years, but it would come back to me.

In this day and age, you should know CAD as well. Even the lowly Auto Cad 2D will take you far. With all that said, you need to make your own luck and get into good shops. My son is now 22 and working as a gear cutter for a good shop. He's good with his hands, but I'd like to see him with some formal training.

 

Realize that there is a vast difference between production machine operator and automotive machinest. Most automotive machines are one off specialty units. Made for specific jobs. Unlike the typical tool room/production lathes and mills.

In my area there are a lot of retired auto workers that ran machines on repair and production in the auto plants. They are lost when it comes to running automotive rebuilding equipment.

Learning CNC and specialized tasks are great skills to have. But unless you start out in a high end mega dollar automotive machine shop. You won't use those skills much.

The average automotive machine shop/hot rod shop in south east Michigan has less than four machinest employees. Most of the machines have been in operation for many years.,. Little of the equipment is computer controlled. Most is specific for the particular job..

A part of the job is teardown of the customers unit. Dirty, nasty smelly, and not a glory job. I used to have young aprentice do these type jobs. Now the kids don't want to get dirty!

Inspection/cleaning is next. Then on to the actual machining. Now I know there are automotive boring/surfacing/line bore machines that are quick from setup time to floor. But like I said the average auto shop won't have one.. They will have an old manual setup Block master milling machine or a Peterson back-way mill/grinder A Kwik-Way single cylinder boring bar and maybe a boring table. A Sunnen CK type automatic cylinder hone, A Sunnen rod reconditioning setup and cap grinder. A valve refacing machine and a Headshop type machine for replacing seats and guides..

All are repair/hot rod basics. All completely different than industrial machines.. All single operation

Been in the business since the mid sixties.. You have to love the stuff or become a health care professional.. The pay is much better..

 

Always good to know basic shop formulas for speeds and feeds. Tap drill formulas are good to retain.

I worked with a bunch of guys who were hired out of Grumman and also Fairchild when it tanked in the 1980s. Some were a 1-trick-pony, they were classified as machinists even though they worked on a drill press for 25 years and knew nothing else. We used to take bets on how long they'd last, right in front of them. A real confidence booster.

A basic machine shop practice book is good. Pick up a Machinery's Handbook as well.

 

I started my apprenticeship at the Naval Air Station Alameda Calif in 1959.
I learned to run every machine there was, later I have done lots of other things,
But the Machinist background prepared me for almost anything that I wanted to do.
I have built many cars over the years, and am just finishing one now. Built from chalk marks on the floor. It is something that you don't unlearn. I still have my original 1959 Machinery's Handbook, and use it all the time. I remember years ago saying I was going to build a house, and Said " if I can build a Skilsaw, I can surely build a House. attached is my latest almost finihed. I am 73.

 

The machinist career is a good one. Lots of variety and opportunity for the right guy.
One thing most machinists never learn is how things actually work, they live off drawings created by other people and never see the assemble finished parts or the failures of them. An understanding of what you are working on and how it can fail will make you much better at your job and make you more money.

I currently work remachining $250,000 heli transmission parts. No room for error and you need to know exactly where to remove material to bring the part back to spec.

Same goes for my old job, remachining 400 ton ore truck diff carriers. Factory runout spec was .01 and the wouldn't last the 1000 hour service life. Get them to run less than .002 and the would and could run them 60% overload for the 1000 hours.

I guess what I am saying is get very good at figuring out what is important on the job and be very accurate first, fast will come as experience grows.

 

I had 20 years in machine shop, the last 8 in management. I spent 5 years working on hard parts for the space shuttle before I got into nc's. Programming... back in the early days when almost machining was point-to-point...almost next to nothing for canned cycles. I'd spend days, weeks sometimes, calculating all the straight line moves necessary to machine blending points, ovals, ect. It all had to be hand written on programming sheets, then typed into a flexowriter to punch a paper tape. It would take 3 or 4 hundred lines of information to machine a precision oval groove with a really fine finish for instance. So, Amen to what Bob396 is telling you about the math!!
Things have really changed!!
It really killed me a few months ago when I had to have my custom dash panel machined...the one thing on my car I really could have used my experience from a prior life...and I had to farm it out. #$!!^$$

 

wow, thanks for all the response. yeah, this is my first semester of machining and so far we have just been doing manual machining such as bridgeports, manual lathes, and surface grinders. I have had some previous experience before school at home. dads got an old logan lathe and a Bridgeport I have use but I have learned so much in these past months. as far as the future is concerned, I would like to get into a small shop that does a lot of "one off" parts where very few identical parts are being made. that way each day introduces a new challenge. how about some more pics guys!

 

This was the last project I did:



Alternator relocation bracket for an O/T 4 cylinder car. Guy had a custom screw-type supercharger on it and had to drop the alternator 1/2" because of the case/pulley.

Done entirely on a bridgeport.

Road racing shop we are friends with designed some clevis-type mount for a completely bolt-in roll cage for another O/T car . . . again on the bridgeport




Built an overdrive pulley for another O/T car . . . protoTRAK lathe this time




Its not all manual work though . . .

Stainless exhaust flanges for yet another O/T engine/car in a Fadal 3016 VMC



These lug nuts were done on a Nexturn multi-axis swiss-turn lathe out of 6al-4v titanium for a drift team:




Its not all cool projects (yet ) but I agree with everyone else . . . you have to learn the basic concepts of how to hold work, speeds/feeds, how to program before you can ever just throw some material in a machine and go.

There really is two separate paths though, engine machinist that does boring/honing/turning/etc and a job shop/tool & die guy. Job shop work can be anywhere, margins are usually better, and the skills required (IMO) will be around longer. For example, the lug nuts went to a guy in FL and a guy in CA. Exhaust flanges were originally for a guy in OH and now a distributor in WA carries them for us.

You also NEED to learn some type of CAM program be it MasterCAM or SurfCAM or GibbsCAM or whatever. They all do the same thing and will allow you to earn more money if you can run them since you will be the setup guy AND the button pusher if you go work in a CNC shop. Having worked in two machine shops prior to doing my own thing, it is true that a caste system exists. A shop usually wants button pushers in there making next to nothing to keep the machines going. Next up is the programmer/setup guy and above him would be the engineer/designer. The only way to move up is to learn new skills (CAM then CAD) and potentially leave somewhere and apply somewhere else if that business isn't interested in training anyone. I saw it at the last place I worked . . . they wouldn't let one of the button pushers move up because they were going to have to pay him more eventhough it would have actually saved them money.

So start out wherever you can and know you will get the suck jobs for a couple of years straight out of school. Like in most trades, your payment at the beginning is primarily in experience and not cash.

 

I've been in the machine tool trade for over 40 yrs. Starting out at 17 in a job shop, then building machine tools, and now repairing them for a defense contactor. It's good to see a younger generation starting to have intrest. I do most of my stuff on manual machines, due to the fact its all one off. There are so many venues to get into. I not only make parts for hot rods but also gun parts

 

Does not matter how good an education you get (very important tho) for one to get a job in any automotive machine shop , one must have the knowlage on how to push a broom with precise control for hours on end.

 

yeah, second year I plan on getting into advanced cnc. this unlike swiss or mold making will teach me cam and put me in the position to work in a one off shop. I am a bit ahead of the rest of the class, so I was able to finish up the parts assigned early, and yesterday I wrote my first cnc program. it was really simple, but it was fun and also kinda intimidating at the same time

 

I do side work for a guy who has a big machine shop, lathes & mills. I help him break down jobs, order material, design the tooling, etc.
He recently picked up a tough lathe job, another local competitor was not able to do it. It was made from aluminum tubing, the finished part was 11" long and a diameter of 10", which included a milled flange around the outside of the middle of the part with mounting holes.
We agreed that we should add 1" to the blank length to give the part a handle for all operations and part it off later.
He goes to order the material and he asks if his competition had recently placed a similar order, which he did. He ordered the blanks 1/16" over the final length, basically painting himself into a corner.

 

CNC programs are not that hard, if you start with simple parts and go to more difficult parts as you learn more. Again, the manual machining experience is critical and surely applies. Programming is also a discipline, doing the same thing over and over. One place I programmed for, the supervisor liked us to do certain things the same way, which made it easier to de-bug someone else's program if we had to.

 

I've machined many parts over the years, but not many photos on digital.
I used 35 Ford window and door handles on my 40 and wanted to copy the flavor for the shift and tilt levers and the banjo wheel.
I think they worked out well.
First the 35 knob


And the finished products

 

In 1963 after i got out of the Army I started running an altered coupe at Fremont Drags. I had a lot of fun with that car. But as i looked around I couldn't help notice that all the nicer cars belonged to machinists. Or were sponsored by a machine shop. It was clear that if i was ever going to have a car i was proud of i would have to learn machining. In those days it was pretty easy to get into an apprenticeship program and i did. Stayed there 33 years. Built several cars and happy I did that. I think you have a great beginning and will do well in the trade.

 

Lots of wise words spoken above, Learn Manual machining, its a good grounding to go forward into CNC machining, Learn all of it, from Milling, Turning, and Grinding. (Grinding seems to be a bit of a black art these days,) other good things to have are Welding, Brazing and soldering, Sheet metalwork, is another good thing to have... General metal fabrication can be useful too, Most of it will come with time, Never stop learning!!!!!!!!!!
When I was an apprentice, (not sure if you have Apprenticeships) our first year was in a dedicated workshop, where you learnt all these basics, which have stood me well for all my life,
Good Luck with your choice, enjoy yourself, its a interesting and rewarding job.....

 

As stated before... The skills you learn as a machinist will serve you well for the rest of your life. I started as a machinist apprentice and spent many long months just learning things that never involved actually using the equipment. Setup and work-holding were invaluable to me later in life as I joined the military and ended up having a great foundation to learn new skills and trades. Like the guys said, never stop learning and embrace technology, it will make you and your skill set more marketable.

 

being a machinist always gives you the opportunity to look at solutions in many ways.
here, my ring grooves where too tight! and the wrist pins were heat shrunk on
no problem!

not to mention making your own custom parts

plus, you never have an excuse to be bored, you can always just go tinker


jeff

 

I like machining, it's not my job and I learn by myself, no CNC old mill and lathe only.

It's a work in progress.

 

looking good. any other neat projects out there?

 

Metal casting is ancient technology, relatively easy to do and throws the parts making door wide open. CAD is the tool I use to greatest advantage.
http://s646.photobucket.com/user/Flat32/library/

Flat32

 

Super Duper Trans Axle for my Pulling Garden Tractor..And few other tweaked stuff..

 

heres one i just finished