Technical Cruise O Matic FX - problems after rebuild

I have just rebuilt the COM small case in my 64 galaxie and as I suspected as i novice I have a few problems now when testing it.
When put in reverse it drives but when I give it som gas it feels like it kind of locks up.
And also it drives in Neutral.
I'm guessing the front band is set to tight and when i try to go in reverse the tranny works against itself?
Thanks / Petter

 

Though when I put it together and adjusted the front band it was not tight on the drum in the released position

 

The car drives forward in reverse and neutral , does it dive forward in drive. If so then the forward clutch is applied all the time. Could be the clutch pack is too tight. Front band is for 2nd gear.

 

Well, I sorta suspected you might run into some problems after assembly. After all, this is a somewhat complicated transmission for someone with little or no experience with the cast iron Fords.
If the car drives forward on the ground in neutral, the only thing that can cause that is if the forward clutches are applied or have excessive drag on them. How the front and rear bands are adjusted would be irrelevant at this time. If it feels like its locking up in reverse, the front band could be too tight or again the forward clutches could be applied or have excessive drag. Based on the fact that you have problems in two different ranges, I would suspect the forward clutch.
Power flow of the transmission:
Park: nothing applied
Reverse: direct (high/reverse) clutches/low reverse band
Neutral: nothing applied
Drive 2: Second gear: forward clutches/intermediate band
Third gear: forward clutches/direct clutches
Drive 1: First gear: forward clutches/low sprag
Second gear: forward clutches/intermediate band
Third gear: forward clutches/direct clutches
Low: forward clutches/low reverse band/low sprag holding but not effective
Bill

 

Again I'll say that I have no experience with these trannys but I suspect not enough clearance in the foreword clutch pack. As justpassinthtu said. Too little clearance means drag and that can cause this kind of problem. Did you check the clutch pack clearance?

 

Haha yeah i would have been surprised my self if everything hade gone perfect with this.

Did not check clearance, but i used the thinnest frictions and had plenty of room for the lock ring to fit.

How do i proceed? Tear it down again? And what would i look for then?

Really appreciate you guys taking your time!

 

Hey, at least you are trying to do it yourself and learn. That takes a little backbone and most guys won't take the time or lumps that go along with it. I've only done a handful of Powerglides but it felt really good to learn something new. Bet you figure it out and I can ask you for advice when I tear into my C-4.

 

Alright, lets see if I can help you diagnose the problem.

I will need a better more detailed description from you of what the trans is doing.

Have you driven the car down the street, does it shift, or havent you got that far yet?

Does the car actually drive forward in neutral or just creep?

Will the engine rev up like normal in park or does it feel like doing a "brake torque"?
Will it rev up like normal in neutral with you'r foot on the brake?
If it does not rev up, dont push it hard, it can cook the trans, if that has not already happened.
If it does not rev up, the forward clutches are applied.

You said it feels like its locking up in reverse but will the car actually back up?
Again dont push it hard.

When you assembled the forward clutch did you do it the way I said. Was the last friction clutch just below the bottom of the snap ring groove in the top of the drum. Then install the input shaft and snap ring. Did all the frictions spline with the inner hub?

Maybe with some good descriptions of what its doing, we can diagnose whats wrong and if you get lucky, real lucky, you wont have to pull it back out of the car. Based on what you have described so far, I dont think luck will be with you.
Bill

 

Actually I miss spoke about where the last clutch should end up in the forward drum. It should be at or just below the register for the input shaft in the drum. If the snap ring went in easily, I would think the clutches wernt too tight.
Bill

 

So it should be hard to get the snap ring in?

Din't know if it was safe driving it so i have just tested it a few feet.
It revs just fine in park but i havent tested breaking and reving in N. Will do that today.

When i put it in reverse it starts to back up but when i give it some gas it feels like im backing in to a wall of rubber kind of. Did not want to force it so I dont really know if it will stop completely or keep moving.

All frictions splined with the hub.

 

Used my extreme skills in paint to try to show hos the clutch was assembled.
Last friction was about the same level as the hub.

 

Yes that is correct. If its together like that and the snap ring on the input shaft went in easy, the clutches shouldnt be too tight. So far so good.

Its also good you havent really drove it on the street yet also.
If you run it with the wheels off the ground will it go through the gears and upshift?

One thing that still bothers me is the two wear patterns (shiney spots) on the belville spring. The outer one is from the bottom of the lower pressure plate, which is normal. The inner one looks like its from hitting the bottom of the clutch hub.
Is the bottom of the hub worn also, from contact with the hub.
The only time I see that happen is if the caged needle bearing set down inside the planetary has come apart, or the thrust washer between the sun shaft and direct drum or thrust washers between the direct drum and forward drum are missing.
What happens is the sun shaft will drop lower due to the bearing being torn up and the rollers missing and then the forward clutch hub will contact the belville spring.
Was the needle bearing set in the planetary there and ok and all thrust washers there?

Did you assemble the stuff the way I told you to do in you'r previous thread?
If you did, when you put the first friction in the forward drum on top of the lower pressure plate, did it spline with the hub or did it go below the splines? If the first clutch installed in the drum went past the lower edge of the hub, then the hub has been worn down and shorter than normal.

You still havent said if it actually drives in neutral on the ground or not.
If you only saw the wheels rolling forward with the trans in neutral while the wheels were off the ground, that will be normal.
Bill

 

One other thing about the wear marks on the belville spring is the spring and hub could make contact if the frictions in the forward drum were heavily worn thin and there is excessive clearance in the forward clutch pack. I think in the previous thread you said they were worn really bad.
I may just be looking at contact due to that and not that there are missing washers or bearings, and that would have been corrected with new clutches.
Bill

 

Yeah the old frictions where really bad so thats probably why the marks are there on the spring. I installed a new hub on assembly.
All frictions connected with the hub.

Tested breaking and reving in neutral. It did not feel as it break torqued, but it did when I put it in gear.
It does not drive in neutral, just creeps.

Assembled the clutch just as you said before.

Tryed rolling the car backwards with the motor off.. same thing as when motor is running. Locks upp with a "spring" feeling after less than a foot.

All the thrust washers where there and the needle bearing in the planetary rolled fine and had all needles in it.

 

Can the thrust washers be turned the wrong way?

 

Wheels of the ground:
Reverse, locked wheels that moves just a half foot and then locks again when reving.

Neutral, wheels start turning and turns faster when reving.

D1 and D2 shifts around 30mph.

Low, seems to be in low.. the wheels are not turning that fast when reving.

 

I tryed loosing the front band a bit. Now i can push the car backwards when the motor is switched off. But it acts the same way with the motor running.

Also when I roll the car forward with the engine off there is a "rubber squeaky squealing" sound from the trans.

 

Ok, good, then the hub is not an issue. I think the forward clutches are ok.

Very slight creep in neutral or the feeling like it wants to, on a flat smooth plane is somewhat normal on a fresh trans. With the wheels off the ground and in neutral it is common for the wheels to spin forward on a fresh trans.

The thrust washers in the drums can go either way. Usually the one on the sun gear shaft will have a raised center, but I think it gets that way from use. I put it in with the raised center toward the direct drum. I dont think this is an issue.

When you assenbled the trans did the input and output shafts turn fairly easy before adjusting the bands? If it did then nothing is jamed up in the trans, like mispositioned thrust washers etc.

Were doing the process of eliminations.

Does it go through the gears and upshift with the wheels off the ground?
I need to know this.

One stupid question I have to ask: Are you sure the parking brakes are not dragging because they can cause that kind of feeling while backing up.

If the brakes are ok, the next step I would do is remove the pan and recheck the band adjustments.
Especially the front band. If its too tight, it can cause the trans to drag or lock up in reverse, first and third.
Generally if there is about 1/4" or a little less clearance between the servo pin and the adjustment bolt when prying the servo lever toward applying the band, its ok. You should be able to just about fit a 1/4" bolt between them when prying the lever towards applying the band.

If thats ok, it is possible that there is something wrong with the seals in the front servo. High/Reverse (direct) clutch oil goes to the servo in third and reverse to release the intermediate band. The fluid pressure would have to leak past the release side to the apply side. Im not sure that even if it did that, that it would apply the band.
Bill

 

How did you loosen the front band? Did you take the pan off? Because the adjuster is in side the trans.
You said this is a small case Cruiso. Not that it matters for power flow etc., but does the filler tube go in the case or is it in the pan?
Just want to be on the same page.

Small case has the filler tube in the case
Medium case has the filler tube in the pan.
Large case is Lincoln only
Bill

 

The filler tube is in the pan, but the length of the case is small case and pan shape is also small case.

Yes I removed the pan to adjust the band. When I installed it I had a 1/4" metall piece between the pin and the servo and used a torque screwdriver at 10 inch pounds (not shure of the realiability on the screw driver though) then backed of the adjusting pin one turn and then tightened the lock nut.

I´ll have to check the parking breaks again, but with the rear wheels of the ground there is no problem turning them forward by hand.

And yes it does shift with the wheels of the ground.. shifts up around 30mph in both D1 and D2

 

Ok, from the sounds of it, by the way you did it, the band is probably a little looser than I normally adjust them. That is fine. It shouldnt be dragging on the drum.
The trans should shift once in the first drive range and two times in the second drive range. Up in the air, it can sometimes be hard to feel 2 shifts, unless riding the brake. With no load on the trans, the shifts could stack up on each other.
Im still trying to figure out this noise you have in the trans.
Bill

 

I just followed the shop manual when i adjusted the band.

Yeah I dont get the noise either.. its not metallic and does not sound "bad" and i dont hear it when driving.

Still feel i need to check the parking break as you said.. would great if thats the problem haha.

Cant thank you enough for sharing you expertise here Bill!

 

Now that you mention it! I'm pretty shure it did.. but I when the whole trans was complete and bands adjusted it was hard to turn it by hand one way and if I remember correctly i could not turn it the other way.. dit not use my whole strength and i didn't reflect on it either since i did not know if it was normal or not.

 

When i turn the left rear wheel forward by hand i can feel it breaking for a few inches every turn and when i turn it backwards i hear and feel slight breaking all the time!

 

Backed off the parking break at the equalizer until the cables where really loose. Could still feel breaking when turning the wheels by hand. But when im reving in reverse the wheels moved a little bit more than before, still locked when idling.

Removed the left rear wheel and break drum and backed off the break with the adjusting screw until it bottomed. Put the drum back on and did not hear any breaking when turning it any way, thou it was much harder to turn backward than forward.

Tryed reversing with engine on.. breaks locks up a bit again, so I tryed again with the break drum removed, then the breaks on the right rear wheel locked up a bit and the axle did not turn more than before.

Ran out of time for the day here.

 

Its normal for the output shaft to turn harder one way, after the bands are adjusted. One way you would have to turn it with a channel locks on the output shaft.
Hope the problem with reverse is the brakes. Its a lot easier to fix that, than to pull the trans again.
Good luck
Bill

 

Been busy with other things for a while, but tonight i got some time over to check the breaks.
Had both rear wheels and breakdrums of but i dont think it made any difference.
When i put it in reverse there is no movement at all in idle, but i can force it to turn when reving.

The book says: Lock up in R:
Front Band
Front Servo

Front Clutch
Leakage in hydraulic system
Parking Linkage

 

Did air pressure checks on the front clutch and front servo today. Really f*ing messy story haha. Both seemed to work fine though.
I hear and feel the front clutch move.
And the front servo applyes the front band and releases it when i apply air preassure to both holes at the same time.
And we know the front band is not set to tight.

Edit: Parking linkage is free when the lever is in reverse.

That leaves leakage in hydraulic system acording to the book..

 

lol - this kinda makes me nervous on my transmission!!! Course my hands are off of it now and it's in the hands of someone else. Going to send this thread to him to see if any of it can help!

 

You have the same problem on a cruise o matic?