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Technical Dropped Axles and front ends in general

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by BiscayneBrain, Oct 20, 2014.

  1. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 227

    4BangerDean
    Member

    This is probably a dumb question, but I need some educating on the front end for my AV8 parts gathering.
    What are suitable axles and wishbones for my model A frame. Can I mix and match? My plan is to kick up the rear frame and to run some kind of dropped axle with split wishbones(I don't want hairpins or a 4 link setup). I will most likely be using the repro Lincoln drum brakes in my build and hope these will be the extent of using catalog parts.
    Please point me in the right direction in looking for parts and or ideas for the front end.
    Thanks
    Dean
     
    Leo Tarantelli likes this.
  2. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,143

    NealinCA
    Member

    Model A, 32, or 33-36 axle would work fine. You can also make any of the 28-36 wishbones work. Model A uses a 2-1/4" perch boss, while 32-36 is 2". Model A bones on a 2" axle requires 1/4" spacers. 2" bones on a Model A axle requires grinding the axle to 2".

    Also, Model A bones are the shortest, 33-34 the next longest, then 35-36 and 32 the longest. On an A frame, Model A bones and axle would be just fine.

    Hope that helps.

    Neal
     
  3. What Neal said.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  4. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,589

    117harv
    Member

    Yes, what Neal said, and to add to it, all wishbones from 32-48 while having different lenths/off sets at the axle mount can be run split without caster mods to the axle mounts, in most cases. Model A wishbones split and running back level with the ground, no upwards angle will have approx. 1 1/3 degree of caster, less if running upwards so they will ned mods at the axle mount/clevis to get more caster. You can pie cut and weld, or remove the ends completely and insert a slug for strength and fully weld, both ways work..
     

  5. Frank Carey
    Joined: Oct 15, 2009
    Posts: 574

    Frank Carey
    Member

    If you are going to run split bones, be sure to use a beam axle, not a tube axle.
     
  6. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 227

    4BangerDean
    Member

    Thanks for the replies. Will certain axle years have more of a stock drop than others? I am planning on a 4" drop,but interested if another axle other than the A axle would lower the front end. I may want to lower the car as is while
    I'm gathering parts for my build.

    Do certain axles look better than others?
    Dean
     
  7. cptn60
    Joined: Jul 18, 2006
    Posts: 97

    cptn60
    Member
    from Joke City

    "Do certain axles look better than others? " Yes, but it's kinda like what kinda girls you like. You might like skinny blondes, another guy might like chesty redheads. The 32 heavy is a favorite, and some like the v8-60. It really depends on the build too. HIGHLY recommend a forged axle
     
  8. cptn60
    Joined: Jul 18, 2006
    Posts: 97

    cptn60
    Member
    from Joke City

  9. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,143

    NealinCA
    Member

  10. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 227

    4BangerDean
    Member

    I plan on using a vintage Ford axle only. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they all forged?
    Dean
     
    Hitchhiker likes this.
  11. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 3,143

    NealinCA
    Member

    Yes, all original FORD axles were forged. A stock 32-36 axle will drop a Model A about 1-1/2".

    Here's a pic of a Model A with a stock 32 axle and reversed eye spring. Sits pretty low for no dropped axle...

    [​IMG]
     
    Hotrodmyk likes this.
  12. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,582

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Yup, with the exception of the V8-60 tube axle... on which no one can really agree to the manufacturing process.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  13. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    C'mon now, everyone knows they were grown on special trees in northern Michigan.
     
    RICH B likes this.
  14. just want to add that in deciding
    how far to drop your front end,
    you need to decide early what
    wheel/tire combo you will want.
    Both front and back.
    I suggest this because many rides
    don't look so good if the wheel diameter
    messes up the rake/stance you are going for.
     
    patmanta likes this.
  15. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 227

    4BangerDean
    Member

    My car is a '31 Tudor and will be getting a 6" chop no channel.
    I'm planning on a '32 axle with 4" drop. Tire sizes Front 5.50 x 16 or 6.00 x 16 Rear 7.50 x 16. I don't know how much the frame will be kicked up in the rear.
     
  16. This is my 31. It has a 32 frame so some diff there.
    4 inch drop Super Bell, (like a 32 axle) pose's reverse eye spring,
    and a Model a front crossmember so about the same as you will have.
    The rear has a 36 axle with a spring behind so it is again about 6 inches down like yours.
    Tires in this picture are 7-50-16 rear, 5-60-15 front.
    This is roughly what your car will look like.
    The big thing to me is to get the distance right at the radius of the wheel well.
    My personal preferance is to get the distancs the same all the way around.
    Hope This helps. IMG_1500.jpg
     
    TweedDeluxe, Hotrodmyk and patmanta like this.
  17. leroux
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 309

    leroux
    Member
    from SoCAl

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1414028112.934192.jpg

    4 inch drop axle with reverse eye up front

    T spring minus 2 leafs in the rear

    1930 coupe


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
    racer32, TweedDeluxe and Hotrodmyk like this.
  18. Leroux's picture above is a good example, and a great car!
    It looks to me like a late 40's style.
    His car looks like it runs flat and level with his modifications.
    Notice that his wheel and tire combo is the same diameter front and rear.
    If you build this way your rake if you want one comes from the differance
    in your tire size only. If you want your car to ride level with the tire sizes
    you list your rear end needs to be the 4 inch drop from the front plus
    the differance in tire diameters front to rear.
    Remember you will have a severe chop. there is not much visibility
    left through the windshield., and a rake will make it a little worse.
    Remember The HAMB is all about traditional hot rodding.
    Most cars here are built to a period in hot rod history,
    or changed from one to another. To a great degree,
    wheel and tire choice is a huge portion of this decision.
    Maybe I'm getting to old 'cause maybe I'm the only one who notices!
     
    LOUIELOUIE likes this.
  19. CTAV8
    Joined: May 18, 2014
    Posts: 107

    CTAV8
    Member

    We used a Model A axle dropped by Okie Joe Casto, who I highly recommend, and stock wishbone mounted to a belly band. This is how the car sits. HC005.jpg IMG_0499 -2.JPG 005.JPG
     
    V8-m, 4BangerDean and Hotrodmyk like this.
  20. Man this thread is pulling up some very sweet cars!
     
  21. K204DR
    Joined: Apr 5, 2008
    Posts: 98

    K204DR
    Member
    from Chatt TN

    How did address the front brakes. Using a 32 spring perch?
     
  22. Sundown Kid
    Joined: Sep 23, 2013
    Posts: 118

    Sundown Kid
    Member

    Threads like this are why I enjoy the HAMB, everytime I log on I learn something new! Excellent looking cars fellas!
     
  23. My Grandmother used to say, "We learn as we get older"
    I'm so old now I should know everything!
    BTW Sundown, just checked your build.
    Looks like you already know more than me!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  24. CTAV8
    Joined: May 18, 2014
    Posts: 107

    CTAV8
    Member

    Not from a '32. We needed a longer perch to attach the lower shock mount stud to, so we used a regular hot rod perch from Speedway and my son fabbed up the vertical extension arms from 3/8" strap with a half circle coped into the bottom and welded them to the tops of the perches. We put some sweep into the design to kinda pick up the Model A language. Don't have any real great pics of them, but you can get the idea.

    001.JPG 002.JPG 003.JPG 004.JPG 005.JPG 006.JPG
     
    Hotrodmyk likes this.
  25. Malibob
    Joined: Feb 23, 2009
    Posts: 503

    Malibob
    Member
    from Pittsburgh

    those are some invaluable pictures there. people have been looking for that set-up both here and on the barn site. thanks
     
  26. mike bowling
    Joined: Jan 1, 2013
    Posts: 3,560

    mike bowling
    Member

    Good stuff- I'd like to drop the front and rear of my stock roadster but didn't want the hassle of switching to juice brakes( I'm happy with the mechanicals, which are all new and have the floater kit ).Thanks for sharing your pictures- a couple of brackets and an axle and off to the rodeo!
     
  27. 4BangerDean
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 227

    4BangerDean
    Member

    Absolutely great cars with some great insight. Thanks guys!
    Tony question on your car, only spring behind axle to lower the rear?
    Leroux... Neat car, I'm assuming banger with juice brakes? Only T spring to lower rear?
    CTAV8...What's done to the rear?
    Once again thanks for sharing you knowledge and cars. It's been a great help, other than I really want a coupe!
     
  28. It's an old solution but my car has a 32 frame.
    A Model A rear crossmember is installed because its
    spring mount is curved upward so the spring rises higher
    in the frame which lowers the car. A 32 rear crossmember is curved
    downward which causes the spring to sit lower so the car is higher.
    The crossmember needs to be moved to the rear to allow the spring
    mount to move rearward so that the rear axle, a 36 in my case,
    remains in the correct position centered in the wheel well.
    A model A spring mounts on top of the rear end so the rear
    is in the correct position automatically.
    The combination of the Moved Model A crossmember and
    the 36 rear end lowers the car rear about 6 inches without
    having to step or Z the frame.
    Remember this stuff started in the late 30's-early 40's
    and gas welding was not as easy and common as mig and tig welding.
    A lot of this kind of mod was done drill and rivit or bolt-in.
    Also, back in the day, many Model A's got 32 frames because it
    was easier to mount any Ford V8 from 32 up in a 32 frame, and they
    were relatively easy to find and cheap.
     
  29. Oh I forgot....
    The rear is down about 6 inches from stock
    without using a reverse eye spring.
    This is about the same drop as the front which is
    a 4 inch dropped axle and a reverse eye spring which
    gets about 2 more inches.
    Here is another picture of the car with same size tires
    (diameter is about 27 inches)
    That old fart is me. When I'm in the car I'm 18 and it's 1958.! Ha Ha! 10658697_344524592387805_5710720908627584837_o.jpeg
    You can see that the car is just about level.
    This is why in many cases the sizes of your tires make or break
    the look you are trying to get.
    Hope I'm helping.
     
    Markmonty and toolz1175 like this.
  30. King Callie
    Joined: Jul 26, 2012
    Posts: 59

    King Callie
    Member
    from Virginia

    I'm using a model a axle dropped by Fuller with a set of F-1 brakes. Most likely tie em in with 36 split bones b/c the model a bones are a too short on 32 rails IMHO. Had originally planned on repop brakes like you mentioned but the f-1 brakes are in great shape and were CHEAP! Haven't modified the spindles yet but they are also f-1 and will suit the build. image.jpg
     
    Markmonty likes this.

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