Projects Just bought 1937 Pontiac Business coupe need guidance

Hi Just bought a totally stock 1937 Pontiac Business Coupe and know squat about the car. Planning on lowering and dropping a 350 I have sitting around in it.

Was wondering if anyone has experience with the model and what options I may have for frame or front frame in order to lower and put a small block in it.

Anyone know if there might be an option for a newer frame that might swap easily?
Thanks,

 

The best frame for a 37 Pontiac is a 37 Pontiac. It shouldn't be too difficult to put a front clip under it. 1968 - 1972 Chevy Nova would be a good choice. Seems like the ones with drum brakes have a slightly narrower track???
A "Factory" 37 Pontiac shop manual is the good place to start learning about this car. Look around on ebay, you'll probably find one.

 

I had a '38 Buick once with a clip in it. Nose never did fit right after that.

It should be no big deal to put a V8 in it, I hope that's a Pontiac engine and not a bellybutton, IIRC they have leaf springs so a rearend swap is no big deal. Kingpin front suspension is okay, but expensive to rebuild; I'd look at triming away enough to use a Jaguar XJ front end ('86-older) under it. A late Nova or Camaro clip is going to be too wide, not sure on the earlier one.

 

Lets have a moment of silence for old Poncho.


1937-2014

 

Yep, another one bites the dust.

 

Thanks for the help.
A moment of silence? I thought I was on the custom page? Saving this thing from being trashed so lets celebrate Poncho's rebuilding. No?

 

Umm, yeah, about that "saving"...
Since we have not seen any pictures, we cannot be sure that it is in need of any of the modifications (none of which are traditional) that you are proposing. Such as frame swap (never, ever a good idea, and the death knell for almost every attempt), or a subframe clip (usually a bad idea for pre-war cars), or a small block, instead of a Gen-U-Wine Pontiac V8.

Give us some pictures, and give yourself a bit of time, before you ruin another Tin Indian.

Cosmo

 

Hmm? Not trying to be an ass but I thought this is where you go to share in the customizing of cars. Am I on the wrong forum?
Trying to understand, traditional customizing is only the body and the frame is off limits? Again not trying to be an ass, trying to be understand.
So far the feeling I am getting is keep it stock with a straight 6 cyl.. Am I misreading?
Is it the choice of motor I might be putting in too?
Anyone else want to buy this thing and make it stock? Can post pix later.

 

It is the right car and body to make a sweet hotrod! go on...

 

Pontiac in a Pontiac....just sayin'

 

I built a '36 Pontiac and a Mustang II front end went under it like it was a factroy installation. My Pontiac came with the strange knee action front end that was totally shot, don't know how similar the '36 is to a '37. I used an X-member from a stock Mustang II, not an aftermarket one. Cheaper and I believe a lot better built. Have seen disaster photos of the aftermarket ones that have cracked and catestrophically failed. Do NOT use strut rod eliminators on ANY MII type suspension.

See here;
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=2439&page=30&perpage=5&reverse=0

 

Odd direction this post has taken. I do agree that "frame swap" is an alarming term and seldom has a good outcome. Also agree that a frame "clip" can also turn out poorly.

On the other hand, a frame clip like those offered by Fatman Fabrications, constructed to fit the specific car/chassis it is to be installed into, can be a very successful upgrade to gain good handling, steering and ride characteristics. And, Fatman uses thicker material for the crossmember than any other brand I have examined.

The Pontiac, Buick and Olds chassis from '37 up thru '57/'58 models are near identical. If not replacing the front suspension in it's entirety, then upgrading the brakes, either to mid '50s Buick 12" x 2 1/2" drums from a Super or Roadmaster is a good idea, disc brake conversion is even better, and dropped spindle supports will lower it a couple of inches without sacrificing suspension travel and ride quality.

As for the engine, there are a number of good options....certainly the Pontiac brand offers many choices, but there are several others, from OHV 6 cylinder to V8 Chev, Olds, Buick, keeping it all in the family.

Ray

 

Hi Ray, Thanks for replying and for the info.
I guess I shouldn't have said frame swap, was just thinking of a way to improve the front end on the car figuring it needs work and needed to be rebuild somehow. I want to hotrod it. Sometimes a front clip is good, new or older car clip, sometimes its rebuilding whats there. Have seen really nice cars that have swapped frames and they don't have the tires hanging out past the fenders on in the wrong spots. Have also seen frame swaps that look like S, tires in the wrong spots, frame horns sticking out the front end, etc. I don't want that either.
I do not have any history with a car of this year, so I figured I would ask what options I may have. Didnt realize that I would be offending people. Was just looking for what people may have done.
Also the motor I have is a chevy. I would like to get this up and running and enjoy it for awhile and that is my quickest choice. I haven't had anything in many years and miss having a cool car. Doesn't mean that I won't look at a pontiac or something more traditionally cool when I have the funds and time. I am just tired of watching everyone else have fun at shows.
I do appreciate everyones thoughts on the keeping the pontiac a pontiac, but I don't want a stock car either.

 

Don't worry too much about what anyone else thinks. I love Pontiacs, but I put an Olds 350 into a '54 Pontiac when I was in high school (1984) because the original staight-8 was failing and a friend sold me a complete '73 Olds 88 with a bad frame for $50. And I never regretted it. The car is still running around, last I saw it was headed for Iowa. Still with the 350 Olds engine/trans. I'd also rather see a Pontiac engine than Chevy in that car, but if what you have is a Chevy engine and you can't find a Poncho mill to trade for then do what you gotta do!

I think your first step is to learn as much as you can about the car you have. I don't even know the best sources of info for '30s cars but it's all out there I'm sure. Then you can take a close look at what you have and decide if the frame is good enough to keep, if the front suspension is good enough to keep, and so on.

As a side note, anything you don't use you can probably give, sell, or trade to someone who can use it. You'd be surprised. I sold so many little oddball things off of the '53 Chevy in my avatar that it just about covered what I'd paid to roll the car out of a field in the first place.

 

I would say, don't start planning the modifications until you have the car in your garage and know what's broke. My '38 Buick (which uses a very, very similar frame, suspension, and body) ran around better than fine on the original front suspension. The big GM cars of the late '30s were pretty darned advanced for their time and handle great for what they are, a big car.
While you can't just open up a speedway catalog and order until you and your credit card are content, pretty much everything for these cars is available from places like Kanter, Hagen's, or even NAPA. If the car is savable, save yourself a lot of time and fabrication by fixing what you already have. If it is not, I wouldn't consider anything other than a crossmember-type, Mustang-II type, setup. Cutting into framerails is just bad news all around unless you have the time, tools, experience and equipment to to it dead-nuts-right.
As for the motor, I'd say go with what you've got. If it is a Pontiac Strait-8, it should be a torque monster, although not fast, once it is running right. They made the same motor for damn-near a quarter-century, so parts shouldn't be a problem, as long as you look in the right places. There were hop-up parts available too. Edmunds, among others, made high-compression heads and multi-carb intakes for these, but you are going to have to hunt for them. But that's the fun of traditional hot rods and customs.
Again, if what you have is terminal, sure, go ahead and do a swap, but be prepared to do everything; motor, tranny, driveline, and rear end. I don't know of any motor adaptor plates for the mid-size '30s GM trannies, and you wouldn't want that crawler of a differential with a modern motor anyway. If an SBC is what you got, go for it, but be prepared to suffer the scorn of the bellybutton police...

 

My dad has a 37 Pontiac tudor sedan for the past 30 years. He went full on street rod with it. 69 Camaro front clip and rear end, 454/700r4 chevy and a chushy interior. With the Camaro front, you can make it work if you play with your wheel backspacing so the front doesn't rub. Also with the steering being a back box you'll probably end up using a factory manifold on the driver's side. He didn't really do anything to lower it, but it really sits low. Springs are probably sagged out.

Cast another vote for a Pontiac in a Pontiac.

Paul

 

Congratulations on your new car, flyboys101. How about some pictures? You certainly don't see many of those.

The pictures of ones I have pulled up are smart looking cars. Big for a hot rod, but I think they would make a great looking tail-dragger style 40's custom. Is the car running? FatMan makes dropped uprights that will get the stock front end down. Some blocks in back and skirts could quickly have you cruising in style, if you don't mind low and slow. Standard hop up tricks (milled head, split pipes, mild re-ground cam, etc.) should get you up to highway speed, and set it apart from the crowd.

HAMB'er ogbomb built this beautiful manifolding for his '38. Check out the build pictures HERE: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/38-pontiac-flathead-6-manifolds.589400/






I found this video of a '39 Pontiac 6 with split manifold and straight pipes. Give a listen.

 

I didn't go into it in my first post, but like RanierHooker, I have a '38 Buick Special Coupe and, as Ranier said, the Buick and Pontiac have a lot in common. The front suspension is essentially the same, Pontiac and Olds have an open driveline, where Buicks have a torque tube closed drive. You do have and advantage with parallel leaf spring rear suspension which simplifies a rear end swap.

All that said, I am going through he same decision making process you are facing. As for the front suspension, Ranier recommends a "cross member conversion" as opposed to any sort of clip. However, the coil sprung, independent suspension type chassis DO NOT lend themselves to a simple addition of an MMII (or any other similar setup) cross member. The frame shape is just too 'misshapen' for an easy fit, unlike the Chevy cars through '54 and Ford cars through '48. So, that is why I suggested the Fatman frame clip, which is as easy to install as the weld in cross member style. I am NOT pushing that idea, so much as explaining the differences in the chassis design in the front end.

The original does drive okay when in good condition and can benefit most from adding tubular shocks, as the original upper "A" arm integral shocks are usually worn out and, in my opinion, lacking even when operating as designed.

Ray

 

Maybe a few pics????

 

Thanks everyone for your input. I also thought a taildragger was a cool choice too.

I will post pictures as soon as I get the car. Have to finalize some things first to actually get it.

It looks like the motor is a straight 6 L. Never heard of an L. Should be interesting. It doesnt run but does turn over so they say, so hoping I can get it running. Anyone have experience with a a straight 6L? Like the sound of the posted 6 too. Once had a 1984 chevy pickup that had a 250 six in it. Hopped that up, was a lot of fun.

Hnstray -will look into the cross member conversion
Mo -will also look into the drop uprights.

Thanks everyone!

 

L head means flathead.

 

Thanks!

 

1937 poncho 6

 

All I can say is, automotive art. I mean look at it. The lines, the style, the stance, a era never to be repeated again.

GM had Ford beat bad in 37 as far as style.

A hopped up original engine, later six or even a v8-drive train change, as long as the car is left intact, it would make a sweet ride that anyone would be proud of. Pretty simple and HAMB era too.

 

Gambino's can hook you up with the FatMan dropped uprights.You can contact him right here on the HAMB.
He is an Alliance Vendor. (It may be necessary to bend your steering arms, so ask.)

 

What kind of brakes could I run off of those drop uprights?

 

The uprights use the stock spindles, so your stock brakes will work. Hnstray mentioned bigger, 12" x 2 1/2" Buick brakes (post #12). A dual master cylinder is probably a good idea, as well. I believe your Pontiac already has 12" drums (x 1 3/4").

Maybe this link will be of help.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/1937-1957_Buick_Oldsmobile_Pontiac_suspension_upgrade

 

Well all this effort was for nothing as the guy did some more checking for me and the car had more rust then I have time to deal with. So I withdrew my bid. He was cool with it and said he was relisting it. So if anyone is interested it was a grey 1937 pontiac. It looked like it had some rust in the door bottoms, rear qtr and a bit of the rear trunk lip. Otherwise it looked pretty straight. Said original motor was rebuilt and ran well. Good luck and thanks all for the input. Hoping to find a 50 Buick Sedanette in the near future. My dream car, so I can take a bit of work to get it going.

 

This '36 Pontiac was on display at the Minneapolis Messaround several years ago, it will give you some ideas:

 

One of our club mates with a 37 Chev coupe just fitted up an XJ6 Jaguar front end. Body style is very similar and as the Jag fits nicely under the Chev, it will fit even easier under your Ponty which I think is a bit larger. The XJ6 is a 4000lb car and comes with a power rack.

Pretty much ideal for your set up. You will want a series 2 or 3 XJ6 which were made till around 1986, as they have the vented disc brakes. You dont want the XJ40 model

Theres a bunch of articles here on the HAMB about the Jaguar IFS. And they started making them around 1960/61 so .if you squint a bit, you can almost say they are traditional. Well sort of.

The ride is excellent, and (down here at least) you pay $200-300 for the whole front end including the power rack. And hot rod cheap is traditional too.