Econoline: Engine swap!

So you want to swap out that small six?

This is an attempt to compile the knowledge from various internet sources and my own personal experience doing this swap. I spent years compiling this info before I started my swap, and most of my knowledge came from the OldEconolines Yahoo group. Don, Vic, Tim, Jay, Fred and Mark in particular offered a lot of useful advice, even though they didn’t always agree. Some of what appears below is direct quotes.

This guide isn’t meant to be an instruction manual, just some compiled facts to give you a good starting place. I use van and truck interchangeably throughout.

I swapped a 1989 Lincoln 302/5.0L HO v8 for the 170ci inline 6 in my 1965 Econoline van and I kept the 3 speed on the tree. I will try to address different swaps, but I will focus on this one.

Ok, so you want to swap out that small six and you want to know what you need to do it? Some claim that all of the parts needed to put a larger engine in are available as a bolt in no fabricating issue. I didn’t find that to be exactly true, but it isn’t that hard either. I’m neither a fabricator, nor an engineer, and I managed to pull it off.

Part I: A Little Background

Small 6 = Ford 144 (90hp), 170 (101hp), 200ci (120hp)
Big 6 = Ford 240 (150hp), 250 (88-155hp), 300ci (114-170hp)
SBF = Ford 289, 302 – I’ll refer to the wider 351w separately by name

1961 through 1967 Econolines look pretty much the same, but there were some important changes in the 1965 model year.

1961-1964 trucks had sheet metal engine supports that do not work well for big 6 or v8 engine swaps. These earlier trucks also had smaller dog boxes and either a 144 or 170ci engine, and usually a 7” rear end (although the 1963-64 Heavy Duty models had a 9” rear).

1965-67 trucks had a tubular crossmember, which is what you want for any swap. The dog box was also larger. Engine options were the 170 or 240ci, although I’ve seen references to a 200ci. The 240 trucks came with a 9” rear end, bigger radiator, a cable throttle, and beefier 3 speed trans. You really want a ’65-67 240 truck (or parts truck) to start with if you want to do any swap.

Here’s the 170 from my van.



Small 6 Swaps

If you have a 144 or 170 in your van/truck, then your options are limited for a simple swap. A 200 I6 will drop right in. There’s some debate about whether or not a Ford 250 I6 will “drop right in”. Slight modification to the mounting holes may be needed, but in the end, it’s just minor surgery.

You can improve cooling by adding a new radiator. The ’65-66 Mustang six cylinder radiator has the correct dimensions (17" wide by 16 1/2" tall core), outlet size (1.25”) and location as the small six Econoline, but the mounting brackets are on the wrong side - at the front edge rather than the back. It will work if you swap brackets or use spacers and cut the notch for the throttle linkage. I used one for about a year before I pulled the 170 and it worked great and only cost about $100 brand new.

Big 6 Swaps

If you already have a 240 truck, a 300 will drop right in. The 300 and the 240 are the same blocks, with the same outward dimensions. The differences lie in the internal crankshaft stroke and piston pin heights. Everything that bolts to the 240 also bolts to the 300. The transmission and rear can handle it. The big 6s (240/300) share the same bellhousing bolt patterns as the SBF v8s and require pretty much the same amount of work to swap. From here on I will talk about Big 6 and v8 swaps simultaneously.

V8 Swaps

If you want something bigger than a 200, you’re best bet is to find a ’65-67 240 parts van/truck because you’re going to need a lot from it. Swapping in a 240 crossmember will allow you to virtually drop in a 240 or 300 I6, as well as a 289 or 302 v8. You will also need one if you drop in a 351w v8, but even more work is needed for that since it’s a wider block. There are some excellent articles on v8 swaps here using an early truck: http://www.wingsisp.com/emboss/econo.htm

So, how do you identify a 240 van? The most obvious way is to look at the engine. The small 6s’ intake is cast into the head and uses a solid throttle linkage. The 240 has a bolt-on intake and uses a cable throttle. If the engine is missing, you’ll need to find the VIN and your decoder ring. Don English (Don at SEQ) is a great resource for Econoline decoding. The fourth digit in the VIN indicates engine size. “A” is a 240. For example: E10AH792267 = (E) = Econoline series, (10) = pickup, (A) = 240 cubic inch displacement inline six cylinder engine.

If you can’t find a parts truck, you might be able to source parts from eBay, other Econoline hoarders, or you’ll have to utilize your mad fabrications skills.

 

Part II: What you’ll need from a 240 van/truck:

1. Doghouse. If you have a ‘65-67 truck, then you’re OK. If not…

The ‘61-64 doghouse is shorter in height (11&#8221 and lacks room in the back for the big six/V8 tranny. The '65-67 will have a taller doghouse (14&#8221 and a hump in the rear, so you won’t have to modify it. The hump was to accommodate the bellhousing. If you’re dropping a big 6 or a v8 into a pre-65 truck, then you’ll need the doghouse and you might as well cut out the floor section and save yourself some time. With the right headers a v8 can be squeezed in, but it will need to be widened for the wider 351w. Some use dogboxes from slightly newer Chevy, Ford or Dodge vans, but that seems like more work to me.

Here’s a ’65 doghouse



2. Radiator. Small 6 radiator inlet/outlets are in different locations and won’t work with the big 6/v8, and they lack the cooling capacity. The 240 radiator is larger and can handle larger motors, but it may have trouble sometimes.

The 240 and the ‘65-66 Mustang V8 radiators have outlet locations and sizes 1.5” top, 1.75” bottom), but the big six Econoline has a core that is 17" wide by 20" tall. I’m not sure about the Mustang. I used a modified aluminum radiator. Here are some dimensions for a custom aluminum radiator I found online.


3. Rear end. You’ll need a 9” rear end if you go to a bigger motor. The small rear is 7-7 ¼, has a bolted cover on the rear (i.e., you cannot change gears without disassembling), and is very weak, even for the small 6. Might as well grab the 9-inch from the parts van if it’s there. Econolines with 9-inch rears has 31 spline shafts, small axle bearings, and 3.0 gears. If it isn’t available, the rear end is 56” wide (backing plate to backing plate), 47 ¼” spring perch center to center, and 61 ¼” drum face to drum face. I used one supposedly from a ’62 Galaxie. I’m not sure what other car/truck rear ends are good candidates.

4. Crossmember. It’s a heavy, 1-piece tube. All ‘65-67’s have the same member, but the perches are slightly different for a 170. Pre-65 crossmembers are completely different and will sit just about everything but a small 6 too high. Here is a pic of 2 ’65-67 crossmembers. The oily one is from a 170 van, and the other one is a 240 crossmember. See the difference in mounts?



Here are 2 more. I didn’t take these pics and I don’t know which is which for sure.




It will require no fabrication or modifications if installing a 240 or 300. All of the ‘65-67 OEM crossmembers bolt up into the same brackets that are welded on each side of the frame. The earlier crossmembers (‘61-64) measure 32" from the center of the rear crossmember bolt on the frame to the front edge of the transmission frame crossbar. The later ones (‘65-67) measure 38 5/16. If you do not have a ‘65-67 Econoline, you will have to add a frame mount to each side to bolt the 240 engine crossmember in.

Some say that an early 289 or a 250 will drop onto a 170 crossmember with a little reaming of the mounting holes, while everything else requires a 240 crossmember. I got a template from Fred Carrillo to make the proper mounts, but I botched it. I then sent the crossmember to Sean O’Dell/Eugene Phillips who put it in a jig and welded on the proper brackets and powder-coated it. Like I said, I’m not a fabricator. You can reach both of these guys through the Old Econolines group

I have read reports of many variations even within 240 crossmembers, so your best bet is to check what you have as you go.

5. Transmission. Econoline transmissions hang from the floor instead of being supported by a crossmember like most vehicles. The 240 transmission and bellhousing will bolt on to the small block v8 (289, 302 and 351w) and the 300 and take the power. The real advantage in using the 240 trans from the parts van is that you will retain the overhead transmission mount. You can use other trannys, but you will have to fabricate a mount and the stock trans/mount will help locate your engine properly. You will have to cut the floor in the rear portion of the dog house to allow for the larger transmission if you have a pre-65 truck. Automatics, like a C4 are a bit easier to use even though you need to fabricate your own crossmember. I’ll go into this later.

Here’s the 170 trans. The 240 trans pretty much looks the same, but is beefier. You can see the hanging mount on top of the trans.



6. Driveshaft. Grab the shaft, yolk, U-joints, too, or get a nine inch rear end and the drive shaft to mate. Here is a pic of 170 and 240 driveshafts. The rusty one is for a 170. Even without the slip yoke on, you can see how the painted 240 shaft is relatively heftier. Believe it or not, the puny 240 shaft will work with a V8.




If you find a 170 with a 9” make sure you grab the driveshaft and joints! The Heavy Duty 170 with the 9” rearend had a special rare driveshaft with a small u-joint on the transmission output, and a larger u-joint on 9” yoke. One of a kind driveshaft.

7. Cable type throttle linkage, from pedal to carb. You’ll probably replace the cable, but grab it anyway. Here is a pic of the complete 240 set up. I used a Lokar cable, but everything else was stock.



8. If you’re lucky enough to find a ‘67 truck, grab the dual master cylinder and brake pedal. They go for a lot of money on eBay!

 

Part III: The swap… and stuff that goes wrong

There are always differnet ways to do things. This is just the way I did it

First step, pull the old 6 out. You can either pull it out through the doors, or drop it down. We chose the latter. Disconnect everything, remove seats and dog box, and pull out th radiator. Jack the truck up, put it on stands, attach hoist (tow straps work great on inline 6s!), remove crossmember, and lower the engine onto a dolly. As it comes down, lean it over. When it’s flat, wheel it out. Done.




Based on all the reading I had done and armed with a false sense of confidence, I cut off the mounts on the 240 crossmember with the idea that I would modify them using Fred C’s templates.



I modified them. They worked for him, but not for me! I think I got the templates reversed. A plastic mock up block makes this stage a LOT easier.



I knew my limitations and bit the bullet. I sent the crossmember to Sean O’Dell at Blue Oval Engineering in CA. He used an old jig to install new mounts for a v8. I think it was under $300 powder coated and shipped, but that was about 4-5 years ago.

Meanwhile, I got the block ready



Once the crossmember was in, and mounts installed (‘70 Bronco stud-type mounts, I think), I dropped in the motor, but had a new problem. The pan was hitting the crossmember. After talking to Sean, we figured out I had a Mustang pan instead of a truck pan… or vice versa. This illustration gives you some dimensions. The red Xs show where it was hitting. The correct pan’s sump is slightly shorter which gave me the clearance.



Better!



This is someone else’s mock up, but it gives you another way to mock up the mounts and uses different kinds of mounts.



Bolting the transmission to the stock location hanger in the floor helps to properly locate the motor. Even the driveshaft will be at the right pinion angle.




I had to use a angled oil filter adapter to clear the crossmember. I got this one on eBay, but there are much more expensive ones available. I also used a shorty Wix filter.



Next up was fitting the headers. Supposedly a SBF will fit within the confines of a stock ‘65-67 dog box, but not for me. It may be a case of a 1-2 year-only Mustang header working… or you can simply modify the dogbox. I chose the latter. Not only does opening up the box/floor provide more cooling over the headers, but I can also take of a small box to get at the plugs instead of removing the whole side of the dog box.

Stock Lincoln headers.


Ceramic coated Mustang headers

 

I wanted to run a manual trans. I scored a free 240 3-speed trans and got a 240 driveshaft, a 65 Mustang bellhousing and a clutch, flywheel, etc to match the engine. I had to shorten the shaft about 1” due to the longer snout on the ’62 Galaxie rear, but usually the shaft will fit just fine. I also added a 3.50 POSI gears.

Here’s where my next set of problems came in and where I realized why so many v8 conversions use a C4. Well, I hate automatics and was determined to make this work. The problem is that everything – clutch fork, shift rods, exhaust, emergency brake cable, etc – all wants to run through the same area. Furthermore, the z-bar that connected the original clutch rod to the clutch fork will be too long with the v8 and has no place to attach to anyway.







Here are 240 and 170 z-bars… I have no idea which is which. You can get new bushings from Macs.



One solution is to section the bar and add a mount to the bell. I decided to shorten the bar to a simple pivot, and use a clutch cable from a newer Mustang. (about $50 from Ford Racing/Summit). I originally planned to use a hydraulic clutch, but decided the cable was a cleaner, simpler approach, especially given the tight confines.




The blue bar is a new rod I threaded to accept rod ends and I attached it to the shortened bar using the original mount/bracket on the outside of the frame.



Here is the front of that bar at the clutch pedal



Next I made a cardboard template for a bracket, transferred it to metal, and asked Hot Rod Chassis to weld it up.




The pictures don’t reflect this, but I had to redrill the arm so I could get enough throw for the clutch fork.

Next up was getting the exhaust to clear. The Right side was a pretty straight shot, but the left/driver’s side headers dumped straight into the fork. I got some u-bends and started cutting and welding until I got an odd-shaped exhaust that cleared everything, but without a sharp or restrictive bend.




The end result (left side)



I used an aluminum radiator. Hot Rod Chassis modified a unit to fit. I don’t know the brand, but it didn’t cost much and the temp has never gone over 185 even on a 90* day so far. I’m also using a SPAL electric puller fan and chose to keep the lower air dam (fabricated by a previous owner). Some claim it is not needed.

Done!

 

what about a straight 6 out of a cabover f500, will it fit fuckin thing has huge pistons

 

What year/CI?

 

Thats the only vehicle I have ever seen that when the clutch linkage broke it took the ignition with it. LOL!

Edit: I wanted to point out that it was a bolt that broke and not the linkage itself.

Nice write up!

 

That would most likely be a Ford 300, the largest gas 6 Ford made. Could also be a 240, same engine, shorter stroke. If you think a 4.00 in bore is "huge", well.....

Great looking van HellFish.

 

Thanks! If it's a 300, then read the whole tech piece. Basically swapping in a 300 ("big 6) is the same work as swapping in a v8, but I focus on the v8

 

Thanks Hellfish, for putting all of the V8 conversion info in one place!
I've got it book marked to pass along to others.

 

Not so much about the v-8 conversion but which 200cid motors (years/models) are a direct replacement for the 61-64 vans with either the 144 0r 170?

 

All of them except the 81-83 "big bell" 200 with block casting number E1BB.

Forget the 250. It is so different and bigger that for all the work it would take you might as well put in a 289/302/5.0.

 

Very nice tech. Thanks for taking the time to share.

 

Nice to see the right way to do the swap! Back in the early '70s I helped my brother swap a 6 in a '61 Econoline. We stuck a 6 by 6 through the drivers side and passenger side windows with the doors shut and used a small chain hoist. When we got the engine as high as we could, we levered it up the rest of the way with a 2 by 8 and slid it out the back doors. (No side door and the seats were still in place!) Put the replacement engine back in the same way. Real PIA!

 

I don't know if there's a "right" or "wrong" way, but some ways may be harder than others!

 

thanks, this is useful
iv got the sought after 63 E-100 heavy duty with a 170 and a nine inch rear end. thanks for the driveline tip, i was going to chop it up. i plan on putting a ford 390 in it, but im putting the engine further back, and custom fitting everything. iv gotta chop and widen the wheel wells as well to allow for larger tires, and i want to chop the roof about four inches. the econoline has a four inch wide strip just below all the windows that would be perfect to take out. i wouldnt have to cut any glass and i would need to do minimal sheet metal to make it fit. it should pretty much drop right down.

 

hellfish i have a quick question, i am mid swap with my mildly built 302 in my 65. The question i have is how well does the unibody hold up to the torq? are you planning on adding crossmembers or some structural rigidity supports.

 

Hellfish,,, this is Vic,, some of those pics were mine,, LOL,,,, no biggy. I haven't posted here in a LONG time, and have a lot of new stuff.
It includes powder coated V8 cross members in stock,custom transmission cross members, shift rod to shift cable conversion kits, remote 67 reservoir kits, plastic shift indicator plates for both the 67 and the earlier Green dots, disc brakes, manual shift conversion setups to use hyme joint bearing ends, short solid yoke tail stocks of all ours, as well as the stronger under transmission mount type, short solid output yoke C6 tail stocks, angled oil filter adapter mounts for the V8 installs.
I also make custom V8 throttle cables that bolt right up to the 240 gas pedal, and the 240 replacement throttle cables.
Reading some of your comments sounds like reading some past posts,, LOL....
I will try to send some pics, but don't remember ever posting them here before or not?
Also, is there a way to get posts from here to automatically post on my Email.
MOST OF ALL,, A VERY BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT MYSELF. Also, want to add that my last customers truck that used my parts and I helped with took 1st place at the Nationals at Pomona,, it was REALLY NICE for Troy to post my name on the "special Thanks' surfboard.
Will post this and try to come back and post some pics. Basically very new to this forum and try to figure it out as I bump along,,,
Thnx again,,
vic

 

Yes, Vic, some of the pics were yours that I took from Google and Yahoo. Often these pics weren't credited because I didn't know. Like I said, most of what I learned (and posted) came from the Yahoo groups where you contributed significantly.

Econovanman - sorry I didn't see your post until now. The unibody should hold up just fine under normal driving. So should the 240 driveshaft. However... if you stomp on it at the drag strip with weak springs and rusty supports... you could destroy that driveshaft. If your unibody is chewed up by rust, you could ned up doing some serious damage, too. I'm in the process of fixing a lot of things now. Fix rust FIRST.

driveshaft after significant wheel hop at the drag strip



Rusty spring mount after drag racing.

 

Those aren't failures...........You're just "gathering data"!

 

Hey Brad (HotRod49), didja find this yet?

 

great thread! i had a 67 which in a former life had been a coca-cola truck. it came with a 170 with a death knock and had the 9" rear with 4.10 gears. a 250 was a drop-in, only needed clutch and throttle linkage work. also had to fab an exhaust pipe (taller engine) and i seem to recall either changing the lower radiator outlet or lower hose. the trans for the 170 has a lower first gear ratio, and with the 4.10 gears i surprised quite a few at stoplights!

 

for Hellfish,
can you tell me if you know? if I use block hugger headers with a near center dump if I can forego all of the issues with crossmembers and linkage? thanks Ken

 

Great thread...BTTT

 

@Hellfish : do you have any pictures of your throttle linkage setup?

 

That twisted driveshaft is impressive, I hope you saved it to hang on the shop wall.

 

about to embark on a V8 conversion .does anyone know if a 289 will bolt straight up to the factory C4 is there any convertor size issues?

 

AFAIK, it should. Some 289s came with C4s, right?

 

As long as the 289 you are using is a 65 or later motor, it will bolt right up to your C4. 65 and earlier 289's and 260's had the 5 bolt bellhousing that is different from the later 6 bolt windsor pattern used on late 289's, 302's, 351W's, and the big block 6's. I think there were a few '64 and '65 Comets that used a 289 and C4, so you would need that bellhousing if you have an early 5 bolt motor to go to a later model C4.

 

I found the right spot!! I just bought a '66 econoline with the 170 engine. the body is in great shape.. going to be my sons car but it is already is screaming for a 302 . Where can i see your products????