Technical Ran wires per firing order and no start.

I replaced the cap, wires, rotor, plugs, and coil. I am getting spark at the plugs but I crank and crank and crank with no start.


I haven't gotten into verifying TDC yet out of #1 but was it a safe bet running my wires on this illustration to verify firing order?

its a 56 272 y-block with rear mounted dizzy.

 

I would do that before trying to start the engine.

The wiring diagram should be correct. although I didn't check it against my old books...

 

wiring diagram IS correct

remove #1 plug -- insert soda straw -- bump starter to check TDC & rotor alignment regards # 1 in dist cap

You using points - condenser or Pertronic?

I'm assumin there's gas?

way WAY back, late 60s I had a nifty littl "guage" on my rig's dash [ from JC Whitney ] that looked like a tach but had 8 tiny littl neon bulbs in it that "lit" when each plug fired -- I had it hooked up in firing order so on starting, you could SEE the plugs firin - like a radar scope -- at speed, all the bulbs "glowed" the COOL thing was that if a plug was fouled or was misfiring it would SHOW on this littl jewel -- tween that and my fuel pressure guage, I could easily diagnose and distuinguish between spark or fuel difficulities when needed

 

Was it ruing before you did that?

 

I am running pertronixs 1 and yes there is fuel. Rotor alignment sounds like my culprit here.. I am not getting any backfire through the carb at all.. Guess I am getting a straw!! Do I want compression stroke to TDC?

of course it was running before that.. I followed the original wire pattern at first and then I got this graph and realized it didn't match up well with the way (i thought) the wires were ran originally.. but yeah, it ran but I have found that a lot of stuff on this car wasn't done correctly so re doing everything has helped me sleep better at night so he might have wired it to "run" even though it sounds like my dizzy is way off from where it is supposed to be

 

If the valve covers are easy to pull, I usually do that. remove the valve cover on the side that has cylinder number one, rotate the crankshaft with a wrench so the pointer says it's close to TDC. If neither one of the rockers for #1 are moving, then it's in the firing position. If one valve is closing and the other opening as you go past TDC, then turn the crank another turn, and then they should both be closed, indicating that now you are at #1 firing TDC.

Was the pertronix in it already? or did you install it?

 

Pertronix was already installed. All I did was replace the cap, rotor, wires, plugs, and I have a coil but didn't swap that yet... although I have spark at #8 but I am not happy with how these motorcraft wires are fastening into the cap. Not getting the bite I would like to see them sit inside that cap. I can easily pull the valve covers and thats what I have to do to find TDC, then lift the cap and see where its pointed..

 

Early in my career, I learned a lesson I've never forgotton -- when replacing a wire set, *any* wire set, I always replace ONE wire at a time that way, no matter the dizzys position, it's GOING TO start and run -- if it was running before I began -- the way the Y-blocks were wired originally -- w the wires runnin UNder the exhaust manifolds just REALLY SUCKED as to access and to distuingishin which was which or if one was damaged -- regards the wire fit @ the dizzy -- lube the wire end w WD40 and slide the boot back a littl to shove the metal gripper into the dizzy nipple socket till it "clicks" you *should* feel a "click" [ I also use a littl dab o white lithuim grease on the metal gripper ] -- if you can't do it w yer fingers, use a tiny flat blade screwdriver to push-persuade the metal gripper IN all the way [ been there many times as I liked to use "universal" spark plug wire sets where ya cut em to fit jist perfect -- ] then w the tiny screwdriver inserted between the boot and the wire to create an air passage, slide the boot down the wire to fit snug on the dizzy nipple -- if you *don't* do it this way, the wire will likely pop back outta the nipple due to the air trapped under the boot and you will develop a miss -- the WD40 will also help to prevent corrosion from occurrin over time

 

Says he's getting spark at the plugs. Assuming the ignition firing is correct and proper, are you getting fuel into the chambers? Is compression good?

 

I will bet the harmonic balancer spun and the PO had wired to the "new" #1 position, or they had put the distributor in a tooth or two off and reset the wires to match.
^ one wire at a time......

 

San Diego is right. The original wire location is great as long as no one has ever had the distributor out. The OP mentioned he changed the wire locations from as found when running to hat he has now, not running. The firing order is correct but you are not starting from # 1. You need to find #1 and move the wires to their old locations.

 

It sounds to me like someone who worked on the engine previously put the distributor in the wrong place, then had to move the wires around to get it running. kingofthecrate is trying to fix that...and is asking for help how to do it.

First thing is to verify that the engine is at TDC on the #1 cylinder firing position (with the rotor pointed to where 1 is in the drawing). Then he has to pull the distributor out, and put it back in so that the rotor is pointing to that position. Then he can put the wires on according to the drawing, and then he needs to use a timing light to set the timing properly.

This stuff is not easy the first time you do it. let's give him some help. He's trying to fix it right.

Another thing I do when installing a distributor is to set the timing using the "dead stick" method. I get the rotor pointing where it should be to #1, and set the timing marks at the crank pulley for the correct amount of advance (like 8 degrees BTDC, for example). Then set up a spark plug and wire connected to the coil, and the plug laying on the engine so the outer metal part is touching a metal engine part. I will turn on the ignition, and then move the distributor housing in the opposite direction from how the distributor turns. When the plug fires, that's where I stop turning the distributor and lock the clamp bolt. The idea is to turn the distributor housing "into" the rotor, just like if the rotor were turning. Hard to explain, if you don't get it, ask for clarification.

Then put all the plugs, wires, cap, in place and start the engine, and time it with a timing light.

 

Indeed that's what the evidence suggests. Like you said, determining TDC for #1 cylinder combustion stroke is the first step towards solving this issue.

 

You say you are getting spark. Does it backfire in the exhaust and carburetor? If so then you are out of time. If not then you don't have fuel or compression. Did the engine set for a long time? If it did pour a little oil in each spark plug hole and crank it over without the plugs for a minute or so. Install plugs and try again to start.

 

I spent a whole weekend trying to start my 421 Pontiac I finally asked for help and we both spoted the problem at the same time. Chevrolet CW rotation...Pontiac CC rotation. That was almost 40 years ago but I did end up memorizing the GM firing order 18436572. 1&6 will fire, spit and sputter but no start.

 

He's one step ahead of you...he has the drawing, showing CCW rotation.

 

I made the same mistake about rotor rotation on a Chevy. I have rebuilt several but somehow my brain fart had me put them on the opposite way. Its worth a double check.

 

QUICK UPDATE:

Engine sat for 2 weeks tops without running.

I am almost pretty sure that the dizzy was set in wrong and somebody set the firing order from there. After many other findings while making this whole car run right. It comes as NO surprise that they just shoved the dizzy and and started #1 where they found TDC.. doing things they way FORD had intended, well thats gonna take me finding true TDC and seeing where that there little thingamajigger is pointing and then set my dizzy to its #1 firing order..


I am going to get a free mcdonalds straw. yank the pass side rocker cover. make sure both of my lifters aren't moving when I find TDC then pull my dizzy...

I love this board and all its help.. if I can get this thing fired by tonight or tomorrow.. im sending out midget dancers to all of your homes for handies cause thats the kind of HAMBER I am

 

You'll get it....just keep plugging away.

fwiw, I spent the past two days screwing with the the distributor in my Chevy II, getting the advance mechanism set up, and getting the rotor pointing exactly right, and the housing in the right place, so the tach drive cable sticks out just right to fit the hole in the firewall. Patience is key.

 

I see what you did there... Clever.

 

For what it's worth, I've always just stuck my finger or a wadded up plastic bag in the #1 hole bumped the starter 'til it blows my finger out and there you're coming up on TDC.

 

Handie midget dancers - lmao


Don't stick anything in that hole that doesn't have spark plug threads on it. There's no need to do this and it can cause plenty of problems for you that you don't have now and don't want.

 

X2. I spit coffee out of my nostrils when I read that.

 

I like the straw idea. As long as it's long enough to stick out of the spark plug hole it should never go all the way into the cylinder.

 

Finger is a bad idea especially with the large Ford plugs. It sucks before it blows

 

Handies, sucks, blows.....we're still talking about cars, right?

 

Keep in mind that #1 on a Ford is on the passanger side of the car. Not the drivers side like most others.

 

Ford = firing order really different.

Ford couldn't figure out their own firing orders and you'll be hard pressed to remember all of it. But it's in the book and all you need to know is where you keep the book.

 

You can do what you want, but its not a good idea. Here's why, Murphy is hiding under the bench and will inflict his law at his whim.

It's pointless-
You want to find TDC ? So what's that exactly.
Ok no mystery that stands for Top Dead Center. "Top" is self explanatory and no need for captain obvious to explain that its referring to the piston position being up compared to down which is BDC or bottom dead center.

" Dead center " refers to the center of the piston dwell at TDC relative to crank shaft degrees. Dwell is exactly that, the piston dwells or loiters or hangs at the top while the crank shaft turns. You are in search of the center of this dwell period and you'll not find it with a straw. The piston is within 1/4 " of the top of the cylinder for as much as 50* of crank rotation on most engines.

You want to do this right?
Google piston stop test" read how to do it and do that, verify your marks and then you'll have a solid basis to judge further adjustment or procedures.

 

thats some great information there. I suffer? from OCD and that sounds like I will get the results I want.. Now if I can only stop googling controversial porn and google what I need to get this thing running then I am on my way