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Technical Electronic ignition

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HOTRODPRIMER, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. I haven't had any problems with my ignition but yesterday I fired up the sedan and it started started running rough but soon idled out fine,,it back out of the shop and got about a block from the house and the car started sputtering and backfiring and then quit running.

    I finally got it fired again and got back to the house,,still sputtering,now power and backfiring.

    The carburetor is fine,the fuel pump is fine,the filter is clean,the wires and plugs are good.

    Does this sound like a electronic ignition problem to you guys? HRP
     
  2. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,453

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    What ignition system to do you have, Danny?
     
  3. Grahamsc
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 466

    Grahamsc
    Member
    from Colorado

    A pickup coil going bad will do that exactly
    Just replaced the pickup coil in my 95 suburban a couple of months back and I would have described it almost exactly as you just did .
     
    brokenspoke likes this.
  4. tmfcracing
    Joined: Feb 25, 2009
    Posts: 984

    tmfcracing
    Member
    from Sweden

    HRP, what do I know but maybe it's that simple that the distributor lock down bolt got loose and the dist has turned.
    Cheers / Martin
     
    hrm2k likes this.

  5. It's a stock style GM. HRP
     
  6. mashed
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 1,473

    mashed
    Member
    from 4077th

    Surely you have an extra module laying around to throw in it.

    If not get one.
     
  7. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    Coil-in-cap? I've had good luck with those, but on the automotive electronic systems which failed me, the most common factor IMO has been excess heat. Maybe this might help.

    I diagnosed failing routers and modems and PC gear, and also the failing computer on my buddy's custom Vette, by cooling:

    Like hot rods in the summer, it was putting out a lot of heat. In Fresno, this is the desert. (Don't let the trees fool you. Nothing grows here without year 'round irrigation.)

    Anyhow, the Vette had sputtered and died 4 times on him before he asked me about computers. He was a bodyman & didn't know wiring but he'd replaced his ignition module twice already.

    We put a double plastic bag with small ice cubes right on the suspect module and drove the car around town hard in 95F+ weather, stop & go traffic. It ran perfect until the ice melted, and eventually it sputtered. We shut it down immediately, before it could die on us.

    We put more ice on the thing, and waited 5 minutes. It started and ran fine.
    In the end he cut some holes in his car for a hose and routed the A/C air over the overheating electronic module, and his problem vanished.
     
  8. I guess I'm going to try a new module and see how it goes. HRP
     
  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    toss in a point distributor and be done with it.
     
    Bubba1955, gwhite and Jeff K. like this.
  10. alittle1
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 312

    alittle1
    Member

    When you put that new module in, don't forget to put the contact paste under it, so that it remains in constant contact with the base. Corrosion can form between the two surfaces and a short will occur. Brighten up the distributor base with a 3M scotch pad or stainless steel wire brush before putting the paste on. You can find it at NAPA or Jegs.
     
  11. Looks like I need to get a new module. HRP
     
  12. I like a electronic myself but had a petronics fail on me after 1 month.Have them in my other cars and got over 14 yrs out of one so far. I didn't put dialectric grease under the module. Replaced it with a new one with the grease and ok so far. I also carry points and a spare module with me now. I'm covered.
     
  13. mashed
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 1,473

    mashed
    Member
    from 4077th

    It's not dielectric grease that's used under the module. It's heat sink compound to transfer the heat generated by the module.

    Without some you'll be changing modules often.

    You can get a small tube pretty cheap on Ebay. It's used in computers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
    brokenspoke likes this.
  14. Thanks for the heads up..

    As many of you already know I sold this car many years ago to my friend Roger in North Carolina to help my mom when she was undergoing treatment for cancer but she passed away shortly after I sold the car.

    When Roger was the caretaker he decided to change the distributor to the big GM electronic distributor so it has stayed that way.

    I was able to purchase the car again from Rogers widow after he passed away.

    Hence,I had no clue as to using heat sink compound. HRP
     
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    inspect the cap, rotor, and contact button carefully. Make sure the little wires from the pickup coil are properly connected to the module. Modules are not very expensive, and they do go bad occasionally, and they fail in different ways, sometimes they die suddenly, others are intermittent. Pickup coils, the same thing applies.

    Are you sure you don't have a nice old point distributor laying around?
     
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It ain't 1899. Statistically, electronic ignitions, in per-miles-traveled, are exponentially more reliable than points.
     
    BORRACHO13 and 33sporttruck like this.
  17. I understand what Jim is saying ,points are simple and is a easy fix but I don't happen to have a points distributor laying around so I'll stick to what I have.

    The electronic ignitions work great until they go south which mine has. HRP
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,263

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just grab a spare module, and a packet of heat sink paste, and keep it in the glove box/trunk. That way, you can ensure you never need to use it.
     
    RodGuyinCO and FlynBrian like this.
  19. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    Not a short, but a layer of high resistance to heat and electrons. Short means a very low or zero resistance. Just the opposite.


    Correct, and it's used on every computer heatsink for good thermal conductivity. There are several grades too, some of the best like Arctic Silver contain real silver powder, as does the more industrial Conducto-lube.

    The cheapest, like the stuff Radio Shack sells for $4 per 1/10 oz are almost the same thing as Never Seez or Leadplate, using powdered lead mixed with silicone grease, but cost 10x as much per ounce.

    Those both will work too, but use the thinnest possible layer that gives 100% contact. This stuff works by the grease preventing rust, plus the lead powder fills in tiny scratches and irregularities, promoting good heat transfer.

    The module inside the GM HEI dizzy is very heat resistant if it's installed correctly with thermal compound.
    The one in my OT Caddy went 208,000 miles before I sold the car & it was fine.

    Also, the hotter the module, the more important this installation is. Hop-up modules like an MSD produce a better spark, but also get hotter doing it. Lots of folks probably went back to points because they burned up a $100 aftermarket module the first time the weather got hot.
     
  20. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 31,175

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

  21. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy

    while you have it open and do check the leads from the reluctor/pickup coil as the paper tube they put on them some times get brittle from all the ozone inside the distributor and breaks off exposing the thin wires and they will short out , and also check for breaks by moving the advance plate as the wires tend to work harden and break over time , If you do not know the history of the distributor ( used , junkyard drop in ect) if your going to take a trip I would pull it and replace the reluctor coil as a precaution
     
  22. Ulu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2014
    Posts: 1,775

    Ulu
    Member
    from CenCal

    @stimpy
    Good call, because copper does work harden and age.

    This is where an ohm meter really comes in handy.

    Cables and wires with terminals can look fine but have a high resistance at the joints.

    At least a dozen times in my life I've looked at a terminal and said, "it looks fine," when in the end it turned out to be the root of an electrical problem.
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,933

    squirrel
    Member

    The HEI in my 66 suburban quit working one day (this was in the 90s)....the wire from the pickpup coil was not actually plugged onto the module pin. The pin was wedged between the plastic housing, and the contact. There are a lot of ways to screw up one of these things.
     
  24. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,592

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Pull the plug wires off the cap and make sure they are not rusted or corroded.
     
  25. chopped
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 2,139

    chopped
    Member

    I've never used a HEI, are you talking about where the distributor sits in the manifold?
     
  26. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 9,484

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    And if you have a roller 302 aka 5.0 ( 1985 and up) you cannot use an early distributor the shaft is shorter you will only contact the very top of the drive teeth and they will shear,please look at the illustration here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-289-30...Parts_Accessories&hash=item20e06e2ce3&vxp=mtr HRP,just to be sure pull yours and inspect the gear most of the long shaft HEI's just became available within the last 6-8 months.
     
  27. 40fordtudor
    Joined: Jan 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,503

    40fordtudor
    Member

    I did that very same thing, but it just QUIT---no sputtering.
     
  28. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,546

    stimpy


    Negative , on the HEi there is a module ( amplifying transistor ) inside the distributor base thats where the heat paste goes, the module were talking about is in the persons fingers and goes on the flat plane of the distributor base , [​IMG]

    on some high temp applications we actually make jumpers and move the module to the firewall or cowl to keep it cool , also do not for get to check the condensor while your in there as its a often over looked part and have been known to cause problems when they die .(some have them some don't )

    these are so simple to rebuilt I can do one in about 15 minutes if its out of the car ,5 of it is trying to find the punch to drive out the gear roll pin and my snap ring pliers in my tool box .
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  29. Jeff,this is not the wagon,this is my Deuce sedan with a sbc. HRP
     
  30. chopped
    Joined: Dec 9, 2004
    Posts: 2,139

    chopped
    Member

    stimpy, thanks.
     

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