Technical Corvair front suspension for a street rod

P.S If you going to be involved in this car addiction, you better have thick skin, everyone has a opinion about your stuff good or bad...

 

In the very early 90's I bought a 41 Ford long-door coupe that had a 430cid Buick/th400 combo in it. Also had a corvair front end. Lotsa weight on top of a front suspension not designed for it.

The main problem for me was that the steering column hookup was a twister cable or wire-type connector (kinda like a rag joint) that was very worn out. When I wanted to change directions (steer the car) the joint had to unwind itself, the re-wind itself going the other direction before the front end would respond. Made for more than one 'driving experience'. I quickly removed it all and installed a MII. Much better.

 

Bobkayrods, I have no problem with people telling me my ideas suck, we all have opinions. I would like to hear why my ideas suck and what I could do that would be better. But that wasn't an issue. The issue was that because my plans had a few non-traditional items and were not 100% traditional custom or 100% traditional hot rod, I was told that I need to change my plans or go elsewhere. It wasn't an issue if my ideas or plans sucked. Made me feel unwelcomed. Before joining this site I never knew what a "traditional classic or hot rod was". I certainly was made aware of it. My assumption was that that this site was dedicated to the love of old American classic cars, rebuilding them, and the Brotherhood of it all. I assumed incorrectly.

 

I am surprised no one knows about the shortened arms for the corvair.A friend of mine had a 34 Ford with a corvair with the steering radius problem.I told him about shorthened steering arms that were made for the corvair.He installed a set and it took care of his radius problem.He later switched to a Fat Man Mustang II and it did drive a lot better.You might check with Clarks Corvair on the web to see if they still make them.They were called fast ratio steering arms.I had to shorthen the steering arms on my Torsion bar front end to get the radius correct.

 

No, it seems to very in to be rude in this hobby. Please keep in mind the old timers have never met stranger and are true gentlemen.


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Clarks also used to sell special springs that were made for Corvair-into-hot rod swaps to support the extra weight of the engine. I don't know if they still do, but they did.

 

Istwsh & RamJet1, thank you very much for this info. My car turns like a normal car to the right, but when steered left, it only turns half the distance as it does to the right. I'm assuming that the rack and pinion are not centered......would that be correct? If I was to center it, would it be a major undertaking? If I could center it, then my thinking is that I will gain in turning left, but, I will lose some of right. If I'm understanding correctly, at this time is when the shortened steering arms would be installed to correct the turning radius.

 

The Corvair steering was not rack and pinion. If your setup is, then rack location may well be a contributor as it was an installer modified solution. The short steering arms made the steering quicker on Corvairs, but didn't necessarily tighten their turning radius.

I've never ran a 'Vair suspension in a non- Corvair car, but I've owned a bunch of Corvairs. The suspension from the late model Corvair (65-69) was very capable in the handling department, and had a 5 on 4.75 bolt pattern from the factory. They will be light in the spring department, but Clark's does/did have heavy springs available. Disk brake kits and other performance enhancements are also available if you decide to keep the car as is.

 

if it has a rack with a cable it might be a early pinto unit sounds as it wasn't installed properly. and if it's installed offset the bump steer on each side will be different. i had to shorten a rack to get it right
corvairs had a steering box ,center link, idler arm, and inner and outer tie rods

 

The rack and pinion unit in my car was from an MG and was mounted in front if that helps at all ?? Do what you want to your car...you only have to answer to yourself. Opinions are like assholes....

 

It does sound like the rack is not centered .Are the tie rods the same length side to side where they come out of the rack to the steering arm? Turn the rack each way and then turn it until it is in the middle and see how far off the wheels are. Might be a big job to fix it. Also see if the arms are hitting a bump stop on the spindle. They may have trimmed off the right side but not the left. If nothing else you should get rid of the flexible shaft. I have a Fat Man frt in my 34 Plymouth coupe and love it. If you plan on keeping the car and have the money I think it would be money well spent. The good thing is your car is drivable now. I would drive it for a year at least as is and you will learn more what you want to do. If you can find someone in your area that has a similar car as yours but with a mustang susp go for a ride and see how it rides. I wouldn't do anything to your car except the frt end. This car was built in the time period when I was just getting into roddin. I think you will find many older guys like me love this style of build. I am trying to keep my car with an early seventies look. Oh yeah needs big and little tires those small back tires do not look right to me but opinions are like well you know. Good Luck on the car and be thankful you got your Dads old car back you would not believe how many guys and girls wish they could.

 

Thank all of you for your advice, input, and comments. I am learning a great deal from members that are so much more intelligent and experienced than myself. I have decided to replace the entire front suspension and entire steering assembly, including the early 70's steering column. Have been doing a lot of research and decided on a Heidts. This swap will have to wait until late Winter or early Spring.....soonest I can get the money together.

I recently reconnected with a high school friend that recently installed a Heidts in his 67 Nova and he will be helping me with the swap.

Have also decided to NOT go with power steering or power brakes.

Thanks again everyone. I'll keep you updated.


Bill

 

Did you remove the Corvair unit? Are you selling it? I am interested in the unit for my 30 Ford Coupe.

 

I've had my '40 for 35 years. It has had a Heidt's MII kit with coil-overs under it for 25 years and over 100,000 miles. It has a longish turning radius but I've gotten used to it. It has the lower a-arm
struts that have the bushing in line with the a-arm bolt, and I converted to an ECI big brake kit years ago. There are probably somewhat better front suspension kits available now but I wouldn't change mine now. After I'm gone someone else can mull that over.

Charlie

 

I had one in 37 Chevrolet Coupe for years , no issues what so ever


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Bad penny thanks for the pic of the Corvair suspension. I wish someone would post a pic of the Mustang II (originally Pinto) suspension for comparison. They are so similar only an expert could tell one from the other.

Having said that, Bill if the car drives that bad there is obviously something wrong. You are right to have it checked out, maybe it needs some minor repairs and an alignment, but if it was a crude installation and is all worn out it might be better to just replace it.

I still don't like the Pinto (Mustang II) suspension, it was not that hot a design from the get go but I understand why everyone uses them.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^simply not the case. Unless an "expert" is merely someone who actually knows what they are talking about rather than repeating disproven biases. For one thing, Ford units were R&P, GM were not, though often hack converted as pictured. The early Pinto/Bobcat suspension is the weak sister of the Ford units. However, the Mustang II units, adopted for Pinto/Bobcat, is a much improved unit even as built by Ford. The aftermarket units are improved further still. I am not saying they are the end all, be all, but I am familiar enough with them to know, when properly setup, they drive very nicely.

And, you persist in claiming the weights of Corvair and MMII are comparable.....and to some degree they are similar. But where they diverge, and they do considerably, is in weight distribution. A huge difference in percent of front/rear bias between Corvair and MMII.

As pointed out in an earlier post, and totally ignored by you, the MMII had the engine centered over the front axle, resulting in about 55/45 weight distribution. The Corvair was at least that, in reverse order. As was also pointed out, it is often necessary to use MMII 4 cyl springs in most V8 powered '30 to '40s hot rods since the engines are set back compared to original MMII placement. And finally, the spindles on an MMII are Galaxie sized in the bearings and quite sturdy. The brake size is easily upgraded and needs to be.

Ray

 

Both cars were designed to carry passengers and luggage. When fully loaded, both had similar weight and weight distribution. Assuming the designers were competent, both should have similar strength and weigh carrying capacity.

I find it amusing that some people are scared to death to put an extra 100 pounds on a Corvair suspension, but think nothing of putting an extra 1000 pounds on a Pinto.

Once again, to be clear, I WOULD NOT put a Corvair suspension under a 40 Chev, but if I had one and it was in good working order, would not see much to gain from changing to Pinto (or Mustang II if you prefer).

In this particular case, it sounds like the install was botched from the first or else is worn out or has some severe problems and it may well be better and easier to replace it, than fix it.

I still wouldn't use a Mustang II suspension when Jaguars are so much better, and easier to get.

 

"it is often necessary to use MMII 4 cyl springs in most V8 powered '30 to '40s hot rods since the engines are set back compared to original MMI placement."

You mean they are lightly loaded, similar to a Corvair, that had the engine set back even farther?

 

The point being, the typical Hot Rod does impose less load on the MMII components than stock, which in effect, gives a greater margin of strength to those components even after the vehicle is at operating weight. Which added weight, by the way, is mostly to the rear, away from the MMII front end.

The Corvair, on the other hand, was very lightly loaded in stock configuration and in almost all cases, is more heavily loaded in a Hot Rod application, even before normal operating loads are imposed. The added weight may improve the weight bias some, but it starts from a disadvantage.

I am not anti-Corvair suspension.....a good friend has had one under a SBC powered Model A sedan for decades and driven it many thousands of miles with excellent results. I suspect the vast majority of dissatisfied Corvair users installed them with R&P units and/or disregard for original steering geometry.

If anything, I am correcting/defending the inaccurate statements regarding the '74/'81 MMII/Pinto/Bobcat "Style/geometry". The Jaguar units are great for heavier cars...something of overkill for a '40 Chevy. But, hard to fault that for inherent strength.

Ray

 

This (borderline) thread has run its course. Feel free to search to social groups for IFS/Frame swap threads; back to traditional rods & customs...