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Technical Corvair front suspension for a street rod

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bill Blust Jr., Jun 1, 2014.

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  1. all the aftermarket (based on M2) isn't close to ford m2! i have driven both corvair and m2 vehicles and corvair was better. by how much was apparent when the stock m2 flexed!
     
  2. 29moonshine
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,341

    29moonshine
    Member

    i have one under my 29 chevy drives and handles good. i did change out the spindles and ball joints to a nova with disc. turning radius is not real tight.. and you can still get all the rebuild parts for it
     
  3. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,670

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Wait until you get the car back home. Inspect and drive it, then make a decision. As others have said, there are better choices today, but if the setup was done correctly and converted to disc brakes, drive it for a season and make a final decision after you have some time behind the wheel.
     
  4. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    The mII was a cheap car, they werent built for handling, the chevette had close to the same style arm set up.
    I kno there isnt much out there to chose from and thats a shame.
    I dont care for the short arm set up. They can be set up to drive reasonable but like stated above you will basically have to go aftermarket.
    Another factor i run into alot is that when they are installed they are not done so properly, the lower crossmember and arms are usually canted back which throws off the caster and short of cutting it all loose there aint much to be done.
    I would like to see the aftermarket make a longer arm system with a wider lower arm mounting system on the one piece tube arms, if they would do this they would handle and drive so much better, but i bet it wont happen, its easier just to copy then to design..
    If i was building a fat fender i would try the newer crown vic front suspension, drive a crown vic, drive a mustang II, see which drives better.
    Sure it wouldnt be as cheap but people spend thousands on paint, thousands on interriors and then want to get away with the cheapest suspenion and engine they can.
     
  5. Hell HRP it worked back in the '60s. :D I went to high school with a guy that put the front suspension from a '64 Vair under his '59 Corvette to get rid of the king pin suspension. Some Corvette guy said he destroyed the value of it but I guess that it doesn't matter last i heard his grandson was driving the old vette.

    My thoughts on it is this, there are two schools of thought on hot rodding, one is if it aint broke don't fix it and the other is if it aint broke fix it 'til it is. ;)

    I am not really sure where the doctrine of the board stands since the upgrade, but if I were to go by our old dogma I would have to say that staying with the vair front end is more traditional than switching to the Pinto suspension. If I have to vote I will always vote for tradition.
     
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  6. Just for the record, I owned a new 74 mustang II. It was the most ill handling piece of shit I've ever owned, The 63 Corvair I owned would drive circles around it! Unless there is something wrong with the installation of the Corvair, I would leave it.
     
  7. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    Pork, I'm not looking to do the traditional once I get my dads car (in 17 days!!!). What I'm looking for is comfort, handling, and safety. Have you ever drove in Pennsylvania? Very curvy and mountainous roads. I guess to someone from Colorado our mountainous roads would be considered hilly.....lol. Also, Pennsylvania has the crappist maintained roads in the U.S. I was concerned that since this is an old school set up that there would be something better with todays technology.
     
  8. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    I built a Pontiac powered Model A coupe in 1964 and used the Corvair front end. It was good in a straight line but the turning radius needed a four lane street to do a U-turn. If you like it, fine but consider using a '54 Chevy front suspension. It will almost bolt in and will handle great. I have a '40 Chevy sedan and used a bolt in front from Ron Meyer Racing. It is a thing of beauty but was expensive.
     

  9. Well never have driven in Pennsylvania but I did ride a hard tail hawg with a springer front suspension and no front brake up there for a while back in the '70s. Does that count?
    Hell even the circle track @ Dover has chug holes. :D

    Something that I have learned from traveling around is that anyplace you go they have the crappiest maintained roads in the nation. I would take a look at the vair suspension, the way that it was installed and the condition of it and then make my decision based on cost and time/skill involved to make it right. In good condition you are not going to notice any real difference in the two suspensions ( 'Vair V Mustang II) in normal street driving by the seat of your pants. Well I should ad that I am thinking post '62 as opposed to pre'62 vair.

    If you are looking for the latest and greatest then you are not looking for Mustang II any more. Vette suspension and 4 or 6 cylinder brembos are what the hard core rodders are using now. Bang for your buck and ease of installation the Mustang II is probably what you are after if you are just building a streeter and the vair suspension is shot.
     
  10. I am with the rest, don't condemn the Corvair IFS until you get the car and able to check it out. It may not be optimum, but why fix what is not broken (assuming it is installed right and working good). Leave well enough alone unless you have a real issue with what is there.

    The idea to use the Crown Vic is so far wrong for the early cars. They are way too wide. Good for late 50's-60's pickups. Not good for pre-54 cars.
     
  11. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    The Corvair used a steering box and an idler arm. Most hotrods bolted in a rack and pinion. Easy to install. They were extremely easy for a guy with a buzz box to install in their home garage. The biggest problem that arose was the turning radius which was controlled by the R&P that was used. Most all of them took 4 lanes to pull a Ubie. My buddy cut his out and started to replace it with a MII but the truck has been sitting ever since. Drive it and see how well the home builder did. He hated his due to the turning radius. I would not do one today but I might let it go if was done well enough.
     
  12. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    Yeah i wondered on the width of the crown vic. I would pull some measurements to see if narrowing up the crown vics crossmember would do it. Its lower crossmember design would be easy to narrow. The real question would be arm length, if the arms and mounting points are to wide from outside of frame rail to fender then ofcourse wouldnt work but if its just width on the crossmember i wouldnt see a problem narrowing it. It would be a peice of cake.
     
  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I'm laughing because I DO have knowledge, the knowledge that the Corvair and Mustang II weighed practically the same.

    I am laughing at the people who believe the Corvair front end is "too light" for a 2500 pound hot rod, when the Corvair it came out of weighed up to 2700 pounds. While a Mustang II is fine for a 4000 pound car, while the Mustang II weighed 2800 pounds.
     
  14. partsdawg
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,503

    partsdawg
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minnesota

    SO....Most here try their damndest to build recreations of hot rods from 40-50-60 years ago and what is done is called "traditional". A vehicle with a Corvair front doesn't fit the mold?
    Or is "traditional" only reserved for Model A's running juice brakes and flatheads? ;)
     
  15. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,698

    Weasel
    Member

    If you are looking for comfort, safety and handling you might look at a Jag XJ6 1969-1986 IFS - it has all three and available cheap. The anti dive and anti squat geometry is dialed in to the cross member and it is an easy install. Only problem might be width at 59" hub to hub but it goes right in under my 1930s car and if anything is a little on the narrow side. Sometimes traditional is overrated and overstated....
     
  16. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    Ok, I finally got out to Illinois, bought the 1940 Chevrolet coupe my dad built in 1976 and sold the same year and trailered it home. As of now I can state that I am not fond of the Corvair front suspension. It feels loose then I hit a bump or pot hole. But worse than that is the steering. Steers to the right just fine, to the left, only about half as much as it steers right. Don't know how to fix this or if it can even be fixed. As of now, I'm saving for a Mustang II IFS.
     
  17. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,593

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Maybe the pitman arm was not clocked correct.
     
  18. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,828

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    people here are funny with their opinions of Mustang II front ends. to compare a complete Corvair and a Mustang II when speaking of only the suspension installed in a completely different car just shows a complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

    do you really think the handling of a Mustang or a Corvair is going to be the same when you put the suspension in an old Chevy?

    a great many MII installs use 4 cylinder springs unless they have a big block or some other heavy motor. I say get a fatman catalog, they explain it all pretty well.
     
  19. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    Just took it for the first highway drive. At 60 MPH it shimmies. Not bad, but I don't like it. Also, steering is lose. I've decided to go with the MII. Fatman seems to be the most popular. Any other suggestions. No budget brands please.
     
  20. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,095

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    I'd go get the tires balanced and the car aligned by someone who knows what they are doing and then take or for another drive.

    While it's on the lift you'll be able to see the condition of the bushings as well. A balance, alignment and some new bushings are going to be cheap enough to try out before you drop a couple grand on a new set up.

    Just sounds like it needs "tuned" to me.

    Any photos?


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  21. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    Yes, took a ton of photos. We just had a hell of a storm pass through and lost power. When power is restored I'll upload photos. I can't upload anything with my Windows phone, which is what I'm using to post this.
     
  22. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I agree, before i forked out the money, time and energy into something else i would have it first checked out by a good alignment shop.
    If its sat for along time the tires are probably junk so part of your higher speed problems may be as simple as changing tires.
    No disrespect but i cant see going thru the expense just to run what everyone else is running without first checking the viability of fixing what you already have.
    I too would like to see pics.
     
  23. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    The previous owners wife just bought him for Christmas new 14" Craiger SS wheels and Cooper Cobra tires. Tires are not the issue. Another HUGE problem is that it steers to the right, no problem, but to the left, it only steers half of what it steers to the right. Another thing I discovered yesterday is that from the end of the steering column to the actual steering mechanism it is connected by some kind of flex cable. Not sure I trust that. Not even sure if that setup would pass the yearly state inspection here in Pennsylvania. I am entertaining the possibility of installing a dropped front straight axle. If the shimmy and turning radius could somehow be corrected, I might keep it.
     
  24. early pinto's used a flex cable and i had a midget that had a flex cable as for turning more to one side the steering box was not centered sounds like it needs an alignment and not by anybody ask around and get someone that is use to modified suspensions very important. as for mII's i have installed them and don't like them. even if the tires are new have them checked, new doesn't mean good
     
  25. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    My father in law is the biggest tire distributor in the U.S. plus on the side he owns seven tire/mechanic shops. Within the next couple days I will take it to my brother in law who is a mechanic at one of the shops and have him look at it and align it. At the same time I'll have my son take the wheels over and have them rebalanced. I start working the midnight shift tomorrow (I work in a steel mill, not for my father in law) so it might be a week before I'll be able to post any results. If the problem can be corrected, then I think I'll have new shocks installed. Did the Vair suspension have an anti sway bar? Thanks for the input and advice.
     
  26. BAD PENNY
    Joined: Aug 22, 2011
    Posts: 1,250

    BAD PENNY
    Member
    from mass

    My 3 window had a corvair front-end in it when I got it. It rode nicely and handled ok but it was hard turning and had a very large turning radius as many have pointed out. But the biggest draw back was that it was really ugly and in plain view from the front. It probably will be mostly hidden on your car. We yanked it out and replaced it with a dropped axle and hairpins and rides, handles and turns much better. Good luck what ever you do !! 112511124808.jpg DSC00831.JPG
     
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  27. threewindow
    Joined: Nov 26, 2012
    Posts: 80

    threewindow
    Member

    you can have your mustang 11. I put one under my 36 threewindow. wish I had used a stright axle like I always have. Does'nt ride ,handle, or do anything better than the stright axle. Plus they are ugly.
     
  28. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    Bill im glad that your checking it out. I really hope that a good alignment is all you need.
    I also like the straight axles best, i like the looks and when set up and aligned properly they are hard to beat.
    Let us kno what you find out.

    Btw i agree that you may have a gear with the pitman arm not sync'd properly, just for giggles too turn the steering wheel the direction it turns short and watch the cable while someone else turns it to see if the cable is unwinding instead of turning gear.
     
  29. Bill Blust Jr.
    Joined: May 30, 2014
    Posts: 64

    Bill Blust Jr.

    It seems that some of the plans that I have for my car don't fit in to the traditional theme for this web site because a couple of my plans are too modern. I have had two threads deleted. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.
    I came to this web site because everytime I did a Google search on an idea I had or for information I wanted to gain, the HAMB would always show up in the search results. I enjoyed reading others posts about their ideas and questions, giving advice and opinions. I realized that this web site had members that were very knowledgeable and experienced and could help a first time builder like myself, so I joined.
    And the short time I have been a member I have truly enjoyed sharing my car, ideas, plans, asking questions and getting feedback. I felt like I had joined a special Brotherhood.
    But then a couple people read of my plans and these plans included a few modern features. These purists then commented that my plans were not a traditional build and that I should change my plans. I was even told that I should find another website. Wow, what a slap in the face! Couldn't these few people have ignored the few modern things I wanted to do and offer advice on the traditional aspects I wanted to do? What a nice way to promote the love of old cars and dampen the enthusiasm of a first time builder. I would think people would be happy another person has obtained a classic old car and wants to rebuild it regardless if that persons plans call for a few modern items.
    Classic American cars will always be around. As a teenager I loved the muscle cars, the street rods, and anything that was old and being customized. But look at todays youth. The vast majority of kids and young adults today are into the foreign cars with all their bolt on items. The majority are not interested in old cars, be it a traditional classic, hot rod, street rod, or even a muscle car. As the old breed dies off, who will replace them? To have people comment like they did to me does not promote the love of old cars. Good thing I'm older. But what if I was an 18 year old kid that had the opportunity to buy an old car and posted my plans on here and the plans included a few non traditional items. Comments like I received would have killed the kids enthusiasm and he would probably go buy a rice car and bolt on crappy after market items.
    I wonder, how many members here have a truly 100% traditional custom or traditional hot rod? Take a poll, I believe the results would be shocking.
    Yes, I'm pissed, but, my spirit or enthusiasm has not been dampened. I will rebuild my dads car, and the only way I'll change my plans is because I want too.
    So I am taking the advice of one of the people who said I should go to a different web site. This is unfortunate for me because the VAST majority of the members here that have commented on my posts have helped me. To you, I thank you for your advice, suggestions, and insight. You truly have been helpful. I know, I know, there are a few in every crowd. But to have two of my threads deleted and the comments I received, well, that doesn't make me feel very welcome here. In fact, this post will probably be deleted not long after I post it because it will offend someone. People can't stand to hear the truth. Be that as it may, I want to again thank everyone for their help. Watch the magazine in a few years because your going to see my car in one of the. Good luck to everyone and goodbye.

    Bill Blust Jr.
     
  30. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 17,095

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Yeah it's kind of a harsh rub I don't know why people have to be dicks about it though. Yes the old hamb was a fuckin rough place to be. But guess what's it's been fucking twenty years since the old hamb, quit being a shit head.

    The site focuses on traditional builds and the last few years allowing just about anything but big billet wheels really made the focus of the forum dissolve. As such lately there's been a new movement to police it a little better and keep it focused on traditional "period correct" builds.

    Now, this is also why there is a traditional inspired tag. For those of us, yup I said us, that are building cars that are inspired and look the part on the outside of a period build but may have a different suspension or brakes than what may have been correct.

    If I really have a question I can't figure out that isn't period correct I'll ask anyways but figure it may get deleted. But for the most part I just don't mention the new bits. That seems to be what most of us do.

    A little reading and you'll find who knows there shit and in my case I tend to make friends and then just call or message them here with a question.i know they'll have an answer to instead of posting a new thread.

    I hope you stick around.




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