I purchased a flaming river gearbox FR1500 and a FR 1493 polished straight pitman arm for my project. I had an original vega arm but it seemed like it may be too low and bought this straight one. I noticed the original fit the splines as I thought it should going over them a bit and wouldn't take too much tightening to make full contact. Putting the river one on it just started a little bit, but I thought when I tightened it that it may go one as it should. I have it pretty well torqued. maybe 120 ft lbs and the splines are about 1/2 way engaged..There is no way I could attain a full spline through the arm. I called flaming river and of course they never heard of this before and also did not know what the torque should be, so the fella went and asked someone else. he said if I get the nut on and it is tight the arm will only go over the splines about like that. I just want it safe, i doubt it would not work that way but has anyone had this situation before or just me? Also when the gearbox is installed should the pitman arm tilt down in front or be as level as I can? Thanks
guess I haven't figured the new site out yet.. Yes, decided I should do just that. I am certainly no expert at this and have been trying to learn from reading posts from guys like yourselves and from articles and books. I do not know how the placement of the gear along the frame affects steering other then the tie rod and drag link angles and parallelism. I read something today that I had missed stating the pitman arm should be level with the ground. I didn't know that and I had been messing around a little bit with it pointing down in the front. I changed that and maybe some of you could look at my pics and see if the gearbox is about as it should be. I figure it would have to be moved along the frame rail to attain a parallel with the axle and tie rod and try to keep it level with the tie rod without a lot of pointing down at the front of the pitman arm. Can it be down a little bit? I can't take a pic of the gearbox and pitman fit as you wouldn't see anything. All I can tell you is the splines are about 1/2 way through the pitman arm and Flaming River seems to think that is fine. I don't agree, but do not think it would come apart. I saw something on the HAMB one time about this and now can't find that. View attachment 2628351 The steering arm I am using on the RH spindle needs to have a taper in it on the opposite side. That is something I have to figure out how to do without spending 150 bucks on a reamer to use 1 time. I am trying to position the tie rod I am using as a drag link mockup to ck the level and stuff. I am open to any tips you guys may have for things I have not thought of. With the box being so level now it will probably have to use a double u-joint to get the angle back up to the dash..guess that is ok but was hoping to get by with one. My frame is boxed at the front so the inner side is actually about 5/16" thick in that area. . I may have to drill holes and install spacers to run bolts between the frame outside and inside so as not to cave it in when tightening the box?
There's no "rule" that your pitman arm needs to be parallel to the ground. There's tons of factory stuff where the arm is on quite an angle 30-40 degrees easy. Now if someone is giving you advice on a particular build where they found that parallel worked better - then fine, but a "rule" - No Way. My '47 Ford truck had the box integral with the column - making the pitman arm no where even CLOSE to parallel with the ground. As far as spline engagement- that looks totally hokey to me. My experience has always been that once you seat the pitman arm - tightening the nut does not move it any appreciable amount - what you're showing looks wrong and if it were me - I wouldn't run it - others may disagree. I'd try a factory arm - just to see how far it seats to determine whether the problem is the box or the arm. Factory parts are closely inspected and therefore very consistent - not sure if that's the case for the aftermarket stuff you have. There's no sense mounting the box until you get the right pitman arm - I just went thru this with my truck when I changed the steering box - there were all sorts of arms available - straight, 2" drop, 4" drop and on and on. I would also suggest thru bolting your mtg plate IF you end up bolting it to your chassis - IMHO. Also remember that you can buy DROPPED tie rod ends as well - those might save you some grief as well.
We've used about 3 or 4 Flaming River boxes and they have been hit or miss. You are right, when you confront FR with a problem they "Never heard that one before!" I had one box that the red grease kept pouring out of the input shaft and I kept calling them about it. Finally, they had a booth at Turkey Run and I spoke to their guy there and he handed me a new one and told me to send the old one back. That box was ok. As for the spines, you have to take a small 3 corner file and reshape the teeth on the arm so they will slide on. It is trial and error. If you look at your teeth, after torquing them, you will see where they are catching and you need to keep removing metal to get them to go on. Also, there are generally four flat spots on the inside of the arm that need to be turned into teeth so you can index the arm where you need it to be. Overall, I am underwhelmed with their products and don't think they are as good as their reputation says they are. Don
hey, thanks for the replies. Hemirambler, I have an original pitman arm and when I tried it on for size it fit great, the splines came through as I would expect. I have to wonder about these guys buying the 20 dollar import pitman arms and overtightening or impacting them. I can just see them splitting or cracking in my situation, but on the other hand I don't know where all the flaming stuff is made either. What Don says about filing the splines may be the ticket..that sounds like something you would set in front of the TV doing! So if I get the right hand tie rod end mounted as I need to then I can lower or raise the front of the gear a little bit to make it parallel and that should work, right? I was also trying to split the difference between the frame and frt springs and have oil pan clearance. I do agree, my 1997 F250 has the pitman going down about 30 degrees, but maybe an axle is different? I am sure I read on the HAMB in a thread one time about this pitman arm fit and flaming river
I think maybe this. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/pitman-arm-on-vega-box-fit.322796/#post-3460743 If FR looks on this site which I think they follow, I would like a comment from them on why these arms are like this as their tech support guy knows nothing of it.
Cruizznn, For me I can't stand laying down good money on a part and then sitting in front of the TV with a file "makin' it work". Sure I don't mind makin' parts, but shit that should fit - should fit! Steering parts fall into that category for me. Chinese crap for steering - ahh NO - not for me anyways. For the parallel comment - I think that applies to the drag link - having that parallel looks nice, but again - there isn't magic to it - UNLESS you are talking about straight tubing with straight tie rod ends - keeping THOSE parallel to the ground tends to LINE up the tie rod end with the steering arm - putting the tie rod in a NEUTRAL position - now THAT is a good thing. But again I will refer to my '47 - the drag link has a serious BEND to it from the factory- - flat across most of the way then angling UP towards to steering arm - the tie rod end on that side is manufactured at an angle to the shaft such that it is in that neutral position we were talking about earlier. Think of it this way - you mount the tie rod so it is correct to it's mating part - then you can tweak the shaft in between to clear what you need - make sense? No magic in the axle - just the proper geometry in the tie rod connections. Not sure I'd be real concerned about splitting the difference - instead my focus would be that nothing hits when the suspension bottoms out.
I have no experience with a Vega box or Flaming River, but there's no way I'd run a pitman arm that only met inside 1/2 the splines. Run the original pitman arm and get your money back for the pretty piece. If you insist on keeping the chrome one, can you clean the chrome off the splines? That may be the problem.
Yes it is tapered. You know, I don't know what the best parts are to buy anymore. I always thought buying a name brand meant better quality but not so sure these days. I still remember the window stickers I saw on a brand new mustang..never saw a sticker like that before and not since, it was around 2012..engine made in USA, Transmission made in China. I was floored. Anyways, I agree the parts should fit properly, but it is a shame you call a tech line and they tell you that. Will it work..probably, is it right, not really. I never thought about the chrome finish, it was a new piece I had bought off of Ebay for a good price, and was genuine unopened FR. I figured buying their arm should fit their box..I own it now so I guess I will take it back off and craft carefully on it. I don't think I want to have all the splines different depths by filing too much here and there, but I need to try it
It takes a little while with a small three cornered file to make each groove in the arm slightly deeper so it will slide further onto the shaft, but with patience it does work. Mine stopped part way on too and I wasn't going to trust only half the teeth engaging, so I worked on it and it finally went all the way on. I would file a little and try it, then file a little more, taking just a tad off each time. I don't know if the shaft or the arm is the culprit, but one of them is dimensionally different from the other. As we both discovered, the tech people at FR are useless. If I hadn't been able to confront the guy at Turkey Run face to face I wouldn't have ever gotten my leakage problem fixed. They need to improve their customer service a lot. Don
I used to sell FR boxes and parts but tired of hearing excuses for leaking boxes, boxes that were sloppy after a few thousand miles and other parts that did not fit that I went to using only the OEM style boxes made in Canada or the USA. I like the P&J pitman arm, fits every time. Most after market pitman arms and steering arms are tapered 50% from each side for the tierod end.
The arms should be tapered, they do them locally and are broached locally shouldn't be a issue. There have been times when they came thru un tapered, should be able to get that fixed. As for leaks, they use a factory GM grease in them, its a red lith type oem. If they sit for some time the oil separates from the grease, the seals are grease seals not oil, so it will bypass the seal some. Its a pretty easy issue to fix if you drive the car much, as it will mix back up and go away. They can also do a deal where they seal them up on the inside, but you will have to send it back in for that. They do build them all in house now as of 3 years ago and havent had issues with them since that started, the old ones were a problem that were made in argentina. Overall they are a good company, just have to get in touch with the right people as they are growing and a bit understaffed at times.
Well I tooks Don's advice today and worked on the arm splines. I went one at a time and made the full circle and rechecked the fit, then continued a couple more times. I don't think it is chrome, maybe stainless and polished. I didn't need the bling but the arm was 1/2 the price of buying it at a store. they aren't cheap retail so was hoping the quality was better then the cheapos. I wanted an original but too much drop. Anyways I noticed when just pushing it on the sector shaft it went down a bit farther. I thought that I should try retightening the nut again and see how it goes on as I don't want to make it too easy to go on. As I tightened it, it had a good feel to it and was going on. I am close to where I think it should be torqued to and when measuring it, the arm is 3/4" wide and I am into the arm about 9/16" and measuring down from the nut side there is almost 3/16" before being flush, so the sector is about 3/4 of the way in. what do you guys think about that? Looking at both sides of the arm on the sector it is tight against the splines. Should I go more? I don't want it to protrude from the bottom either so I would have to watch. I'm not sure regular everyday car pitmans go clear down to the bottom of the splines
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