Technical How far to bend the spindles on 31 roadster build??

So. I'm mocking up the roadster front end. 4 inch drop axel 39 spindles and wish bones. Do I bend the arm all the way down so the bottom of the arm is almost flush to the bottom of the axel??

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I'll be interested to see what other people say, but that is one hell of a drop on that axle. I don't think you could drop the arms low enough to get the track rod under the bones. I would look at seeing whether the track rod could be run above the bones, and if so, get the holes taper drilled from the top to make it work.

If you must run the track rod below the bones you will probably have to use some aftermarket deep drop steering arms.

Mart.

 

You have to decide if you want the tie rod over or under the wishbone.The relationship between the steering arms and the axle is not the issue.The purpose of bending the steering arms is for wishbone clearance.By the look of your setup it appears that going over the wishbone may be the best option.That may also result in having to build a dropped tie rod (dropped in the center for crank pulley or cross member clearance).You should have everything mocked up when you do this.Bob

 

With the drop of that axle, I'd be surprised if you had to taper it from the top!
Looks like the arms have sufficient clearance to miss the beam in a sharp inside turn, too.
I'd try and fit the tie rod on from the bottom; (over the wishbones) it could be assembled by attaching the tie rod ends to the arms, then attaching the tie rod tube to the ends.

If too close, do as Mart suggested: taper the tie rod bores from the top (halfway) so the ends could be installed from top or bottom...

But to try and bend 8" arms to drop 5", and have any length behind the axle centerline... to turn the passenger side wheel...your leverage needed would be a distant memory, gone up in acetylene smoke.

 

Have you thought about switching the spindles left to right, so the arms end up on top? The steering loop might be easier to adapt that way also.

 

or maybe go "suicide" with the arms out front...ackerman may need to be tweaked...

 

Almost. You have to start the drop bend close to the king pin boss and take it down at an angle; then bend the end with the tie rod boss up more parallel to the ground. It's important to have the correct ackerman when you're done. I assembled the spring,axle,wishbone in the frame and dropped a plumb bob from the king pin hole in the axle to the floor and marked it. I then did the plumb bob from the center of the rear axle to the floor and marked it. I used a chalk line and snapped a line through the 2 marks on the floor. Actually 2 lines; one for each side of the front axle.
With the spindles pointed straight ahead, A plumb dropped through the center of the tie rod hole after it's dropped should fall on that line. as a result of the drop you will have quicker steering,but you can compensate with a slower ratio box. I used a manual Saginaw box ( 66 Chevelle, I think)

 

One thing to consider as i havent dealt with this old of a spindle in along time is that they have a built in camber angle so switching sides and turning them over to put the arms on top wont work.
If they have the large amount of built in camber as newer ones, and i bet they do, then it wont be an option..

 

Good info guys
..I was hoping to go under the bones..but I have done my home work on here and guys have had good luck going above the bones.

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I just worry about bottom out .

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I don't think you have enough length of arm to bend them that far down. They'll end up being too short. You'll need the entire car mocked up to work this one out. Clearance to frame, front crossmember valley and front pulley will all dictate the route for your tie rod.

 

The purpose of bending the steering arms is for wishbone clearance.

 

If you have to go under the bones with the tie rod I would cut them off and fit bolt on dropped arms or you can go through the bones with a boxed up slot.
You cant flip the stubs and if you go out front with the tie rod the arms will need to bent out to achieve correct Ackerman, wheel clearance may inhibit this choice. JW

 

What about the dropped tie rod ends to help ??

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That is a good idea as you could go so far with the arm and still have good length without interfering with the turn out on turns ratio too much. JW

 

i had to bend the arms way down on my 1939 tube axle with a 4" drop. the tie rod comes through from the bottom. It shortened the distance from the spindle to the tie rod alot, will be really quick steering car. If I had to do it again(and I might) I would buy the Speedway dropped arms and bolt them on. But bending the arms does work, just don't heat the iron past red hot. If you get it yellow and it starts to throw out sparklers, you have heated it too hot and ruin the steel. That's what an old blacksmith told me when I was a kid, 60 years ago. have fun, thats what all this is about.

 

By shortening the tie rod arms this does not quicken the steering as you do both sides so that cancels it out. If you shorten the drag link arm that will quicken it and as I already said it will change the ratio of your Ackerman a bit only. As for decreasing leverage this is also cancelled out.
If you do heat and bend the arms don't do it in a well lit place as you don't see the color of the heat as well and it may get hotter than you think/see. When putting pistons on con rods I always heated them in semi dark till dull red hot, in the sun or strong light in the shop I couldnt see the color. JW

 

What I meant when I said the steering arms will be too short is this:
If you use all your length for the drop you can easily end up will less than half the original horizontal kingpin to tie rod end length. This will more than double the strain on the tie rod end and also any play in the tie rod ends will be amplified.
You could consider flipping the bones to give you more clearance on top. You'll have to pie cut some caster back into them though. And this will only work if you're splitting them too. If keeping unsplit you'd have to cut the yoke free and re-weld it back on.

 

I have read a few bad stories on here about the bolt on ones. Little scarry the stuff I was reading.

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You can not swap spindles side for side ( and turn them over) as the kingpin inclination would be all wrong.

 

The axle in my 33 is nowhere near as dropped as that, and I dropped my arms to get the track rod underneath the 33 bones.I was lucky to have a set of rhd and a set of lhd spindles. I used the dual hole spindles from each set, and had to use the extra length of the passenger side spindles to get the arms low enough to get under my bones. I used the rearmost hole on both sides.

There is no way on earth that you will get those arms bent low enough and maintain enough length to get a decent steering setup.

Mart.

 

If I flip the bones and mount the tie rods ends from on top...I think I might be ok. However I think I still need to move the arms a bit to get the wheels to turn a bit more?? I think. I need to check on one of the other cars to see how much of an angle they can turn.

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The king pin inclination will stay the same, its the camber that will change. JW

 

Looking closer again...I think if I leave the arms I will have to big of a turning radius. The pic shows the arm hitting the axel. Looks like I need more swing?? What u guys think?

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And it could get a bit worse once I move them to have a true ackerman angle

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I would use the bolt on "dropped " arms that have thru bolts, this type eliminates the 'blind" tapped hole issue. I change out the tapped arms for the CE bolt thru type on my old '40 pick up.

 

I think your front tires will hit the split bone before the arms hit the axle. JW

 

The wish bone will be in more. Mounted to the inside of the frame rail.

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I think you're using an aftermarket axle. The drop is different to dropped Ford axles and they only seem to work with aftermarket steering arms.
If you buy an original Ford axle you can have it dropped a little less than that and dropped so your stock spindles turn to full lock. If you have it dropped an inch less you'll be able to drop the steering arms enough to get the tie rod under the bones.
Mart's suggestion of using a RHD spindle too is a good idea.
Ed

 

i think this is spot on