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Projects '26 Model T build.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by xrw urabus, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Sidevavle.... I think you just hexed Jim :D He's been out of commission all weekend sick. So we didn't make any big progress on the build, but we did make progress. And without further ado I'll introduce the Star of this weeks episode.

    [​IMG]
    (Yes this is tube #5.... but we only used half of it!)

    Don't worry we have a few understudies here just in case the Star prematurely expires.
    [​IMG]

    I said we didn't get much done... I had to keep myself busy doing something.

    The Star helped us get the Alternator and Starter installed and sealed up really nice.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Once we got all the excess sealer cleaned off of everything (and us) we moved on to the next item. Earlier in our adventure we put the front end together. We'll as we went back and made sure things were tight and the cotter pins were installed in all the castle nuts. We found an issue with the passenger side spring perch. The Castle nut was a little buggered. and maybe installed one time to many in the past.... Or we just put to big of a Gorilla (Jim) on the end of the wrench... Either way we managed to strip off the threads on the perch just before the cotter pin slot would line up. The odd thing was it wasn't all the threads jut 3 or 4 and just enough for them not to bite into the nut... So we ordered a new spring perch and nut from Snyder's Antique Auto.
    The new nut went on the new perch butter smooth (and this Gorilla was on the wrench this time....so It was safe!) It's all tight and Pinned in now.

    [​IMG]

    We've got a few other things that need touched up with black Bed liner other then this perch so latter on when it's warmer we'll break out another can of it and make it match the rest of the frame.


    [​IMG]

    If you look Close you can see all the work we got done in this one shot.


    Well the 1000pts have not been claimed yet from the last post. So I think I'll give you a hint. You can see the issue in one of this week's photo's as well. Good Luck!

    As always let us know what you think or if you see an Issue with something we're doing!

    CBB
     
  2. 29pu
    Joined: Oct 31, 2008
    Posts: 159

    29pu
    Member

    Guess number 2.Is it the corner pan rail reinforcements between hogshead and block?I see them laying on the floor.
     
  3. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    You sir win 1000pts!

    That is correct. I forgot to put them in when I put the pan back together. They will go back on soon.

    CBB
     
  4. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    I'm going to Step up and Post this here on the HAMB....(That way you all will keep me Honest).

    On Saturday April 26,2014 about noonish till Who knows... We're holding a Starting Lizzy Party. Location is Malvern, Ohio

    The Goal for the party is to get Lizzy started for the first time. All Hambers are welcome.

    We don't know much about Carbs and have no clue if we can get it to start... but we'll have a good time trying.



    PM Myself or xrw urabus for detailed locations or info.

    CBB

    (I've got a lot of work to get done before then!)
     
  5. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Pan Stiffeners. Ford accessories...1914 to 1925 I think. They stiffen the point of the pan where the block meets the Hogshead.

    I have a set on my '26-'27 engine too. I have the hogshead bolted to the pan.....but anything helps.

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  6. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I wish Chris and I could be there :(

    I doubt you will have a problem getting it started. I used an old un-rebuilt Ford Falcon Autolite 1100 carb on mine the first time. Didn't adjust it or clean it.....just wanted to see if it would bark once or twice. It fired as soon as I touched the starter button and ran like a top for 40 minutes.

    I would say the only pre-fire adjust is the Air/Fuel mixture. Turn the screw in all the way closed....then open it 1 and 1/2 turns. This is usually a good starting point from which to tune once running.

    What carb are you using?

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
  7. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Clayton

    I think you and Chris need to Hop in the T's and make the Drive!!

    I think the Carb is a Carter YF Single barrel but I'm not 100% on that.

    We're not sure what motor it was on last or how it's set. With the new intake and the carb we were not sure how forgiving the T motors were.


    CBB
     
  8. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    That would be a heck of a road trip! :D I still say you two need to bring it to Bonneville one year....get all three cars together.

    How does 2015 sound? ;)

    The Carter YF should be just about right...especially with a hotter then stock cam. I suspect it will be a bit on the thirsty side....so the Carter should supply plenty of fuel.

    I would order a kit and go through it (if you haven't already). Check float level, clean everything thoroughly and set your Air/Fuel mixture at 1 1/2 turns out from closed....it should run just fine.

    I have a few old Carters, Chalmers-Grove and Zeniths in my stockpile. I ran the Zenith 28 (similar to a YF) on my original motor and it did just fine.

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  9. xrw urabus
    Joined: May 26, 2010
    Posts: 49

    xrw urabus
    Member
    from ohio

    Hey, the carb is a Carter WA1 481S.

    It has been rebuilt and is ready to go.

    Also, I will be in attendance for the Start Lizzy Party.:)
     
  10. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I would certainly hope YOU would be there :D

    That should be just fine ...plenty ample for your healthy T motor.

    Most single-barrel, down draft carburetors from 1932 to 1950 with a flow rate in the 125 to 155 cfm range will work just fine on a healthy T engine.....depending on the cam, valve and cylinder size.

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  11. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Guys I'm looking to pickup the stuff to make up hard fuel lines for the t . But what size line should I get. I really don't think we need 3/8 " line but I'm sure 1/8" is too small. Any ideas?
     
  12. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    So a little while back we were talking about the Hoop for the brakes hitting the tail of the Transmission and the Aux Trans. We had a few options for how to deal with this.... We took Option C.

    Option C was to cut out the old loop and graft in a new hoop that is large enough to clear the Aux trans.

    To start this process we had to "Cut" the old hoop out.
    [​IMG]

    Wow 2 mins with a cutoff wheel... I hope we made the "right" choice.

    Next we slipped some 3/4" round bar into the little tube bender.
    [​IMG]

    The bender put a nice arch in the middle of the hoop. Here it is with the section we cut out of the original loop.
    [​IMG]

    Now we need to put the sharp angle bends in the top. How should we do that? We'll go over to the school and use the big bender there. It makes great bends.
    [​IMG]

    While I'm there I'll do the machine work for the new Starter crank too. (with the front axle moved forward and everything the original crank is about 3-4 inches to short to do the job.)
    Here's what the original 1926-27 model T Ford starting Crank looks like after a long life.
    [​IMG]

    We measured everything and found that the new crank would need to be 2' long. So we'll start with 3' of "Stress proof" 3/4" steel round bar.
    The Original crank has spinning steel sleeve handle on it (Ok, at some point it spun. ours is just stuck now). I'm going to recreate the spinning handle a little differently. The 3/4" dia sleeve will be held on with a 1/4" thick "washer" that is welded to the end of the crank. To do this I need to machine a step for the washer to seat and and step for the sleeve to rotate. Keeping your hand intact is the goal with this so all rounded corners, no excess space between rotating and fixed parts. here we go.
    [​IMG]
    The stress proof steel machines great but it throws chips that are little balls almost like machining cast iron... but not quite. So after some lathe work we come up with this.
    [​IMG]
    The 1/4" thick washer is made from the same 3/4" stress proof. Punched a 3/8" hole in it and chamfered the inner edge for welding and rounded all exterior corners.
    Slip it all together you have this.
    [​IMG]

    By the way it's still on the end of 3' of rod.
    [​IMG]

    Now that the machining is done I can bend them both right? Nope... That big bender doesn't so much as budge 3/4" round bar... Wiggles in the floor but doesn't bend it. Jim was tied up with some family stuff this weekend, and torch heating and bending 3/4" rod perfectly is a 2 man job. So the bending will have to wait for another day.

    Back at the shop I tackled some small items that can be done easily by one person. like installing the exterior oil line.
    [​IMG]
    You just have to swap out the mag post
    [​IMG]
    And bolt by the front main bearing.
    [​IMG]
    And run some copper tubing.

    I also added an optional accessory to the old girl.
    An Oil sight gauge.
    [​IMG]

    We also found some engine sheet metal that didn't get cleaned up or painted last summer when we did the rest of it.
    [​IMG]
    So it met the bead blast cabinet.
    [​IMG]
    And started to get painted.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Only got a couple of coats on the tins before I ran out of blue. Then it started raining and hasn't stopped since. Hopefully it will clear up and I can get the blue top coats on and get the insides of the black parts painted up.

    As always let us know what you think, or if we're making a grievous error!

    Thanks,
    CBB
     
  13. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Over the weekend Some more work went into the Engine. Doesn't really look like much was done.

    But The new Timer was assembled and installed on the Cam.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Transmission inspection plate cover was partly installed. Why I say partly is there is an "old" hotrod trick out there to let you be able to reuse the gasket for the inspection plate. Step one was Attach the Gasket to the Hogshead with Silicone. Step two is cover the top of the gasket in grease.
    [​IMG]

    now bolt down the cover and let the silicone set.
    [​IMG]

    Once the silicone has set we'll clean the grease off the cover and make sure that the gasket still is greased well. Then apply silicone to the cover and re-install. In Theory this should provide a leak proof seal that is reusable. We'll let you know how it does later on.

    The Caps and covers were re-installed (except for the starter cover it takes a special 1/4" x 24 screw and we're short a few so they have been ordered). The Oil pan stiffeners That were overlooked before were re-installed. Like I said it doesn't look like much but it's all the little things that needed done before we Start her.

    I also started sealing the new wood body blocks with and exterior grade poly. This is 3 coats but I think that it need a few more. The wood grain is still showing.
    [​IMG]

    As always let us know what you think!

    CBB
     
  14. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    With the Planned Starting Party this weekend (Party Starts at 10am est). We have been working tieing up the Remaining bits that need done before then.
    First on the list is to finish the crank.
    apply a little fire.
    [​IMG]

    Make sure the bends are 90 degrees.
    [​IMG]

    Drill a cross hole for the Ratchet gear.
    [​IMG]

    Install the handle and weld on the keeper washer.
    [​IMG]

    With it all put together what are we to do? Try it out. So we tossed 5 Quarts of Oil in the engine and made sure it was disbursed through out the system.



    It takes both hands and is a bit of work (with the spark plugs in). From the you tube videos that seems a bit tight. Is this normal for a fresh rebuilt engine? or do we have something out of whack?


    Next we moved onto installing the Intake and exhaust Gaskets.
    We started with the exhaust gasket.
    [​IMG]

    Since we added the headers we needed to make intake gaskets to go between the intake manifold and the header plate.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then the Header and Intake were re-installed and the bolts torqued down.
    [​IMG]

    We have a few more things to knock out before Saturday so keep an eye out for another update soon.

    CBB
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
  15. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Good work guys!

    No, you don't have anything out of wack. T engines with new babbitt bearings are naturally stiff prior to break-in. Cranking mine was a two-handed affair until we fired it for the first time and let it break in. It was still a little stiff for the next 50 miles or so......until the babbitts were fully broken in.

    The Special was so tight.....we had to use a cheater bar to roll it over!

    You will probably have to use the starter to fire it for the first time. Run it for 15-25 minutes at idle speed to brake it in. If you have a big shop fan, put it infront of the car to blow accross the radiator and keep it cool....really helps.

    Once its broke in.....you should be able to hand start it.

    *NOTE* USE 20w or 30w OIL ONLY! Anything thicker can and will eventually damage the bearings....as it can't work in between the bearing and the journals. Just trying to save you some headaches if you didn't know already.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  16. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    I can't wait for the YouTube vids from this weekend! :D

    Wish Chris and I could be there.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  17. xrw urabus
    Joined: May 26, 2010
    Posts: 49

    xrw urabus
    Member
    from ohio

    We have a Model T starting question.

    We are OK with adjusting the carb. to get the motor started. But we will need to adjust the timing. I understand how to advance and retard the timing but where do we need to start at. Should we shoot for top dead center? If you have any suggestions that will be helpful. I just want to give us every chance for a successful first start.

    Also, we will be trying to start the T about 10am This Saturday for those who want to show up and give advice or participate in the adventure. PM me for the address.

    Thanks for our input.
    Jim
     
  18. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Good Question Jim,

    It is best to start a T with the advance fully retarded (timer fully rotated to the Right side of the engine)....or at the most, 4 or 5 notches (on the timing lever) advanced from full retard. Once the engine fires, advance the timing to full advance....or as advanced as you can before it starts to knock.

    Starting a T fully advanced can be hard on the bottom end....especially with Cast Iron pistons. You also run the high risk of breaking an arm if crank starting. ALWAYS hand start a T with the timing fully retarded.

    I have been kicked a few times, got lucky I never broke anything :D

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  19. xrw urabus
    Joined: May 26, 2010
    Posts: 49

    xrw urabus
    Member
    from ohio

    Clayton,

    Since we don't have the steering column in we have no reference notches. I was planning on using a rod to move the cover manually. I did not see any marks on the block (or since it is painted they blend in). Could I reference cyl#1 top dead center and move the cover to the right and once started move towards the left? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Jim
     
  20. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

  21. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Guys,

    You are on the correct track. Fun Projects does great work, so I would argue their judgment is sound.

    At TDC.....the timer should be placed with rod adjustment tab pointing strait up...square with the motor. They should line out like this...

    Cyl #1 at 9:00 o'clock...
    Cyl #2 at 2:00 o'clock.
    Cyl #4 at 4:00 o'clock.
    Cyl #3 at 8:00 o'clock.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  22. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    As we approach Saturday's starting party We have an update.
    This week we've been wrapping up little things that needed to be complete to start the engine for the first time. Like Rebuilding the Fan.
    First step was disassemble and cleaning.... Lots and lots of cleaning.
    [​IMG]
    Next we replaced the worn out bushings (ok, so I may have gotten cought up in the work and Skipped taking pictures....well of most of it!)
    Then the parts were painted.
    [​IMG]
    Yes the fan is Old Ford blue and not black like original. I like my fingers and anything that helps me see the spinny bits is a plus when there is no safety cover on them.... Plus it looks good (better then the red someone else wanted to paint it!)
    Then the fan was reassembled and the Radiator hoses added. (by the way the only place that sells straight radiator hose by the foot around here is Napa :eek:)
    [​IMG]

    We did have a little surprise this week. Being as this is a 1926 "Improved Car" we expected the radiator shell to be nickel plated steel painted black. Well it was nickel plated and painted black. But as we cleaned the old paint and deteriorating nickel off we found this.
    [​IMG]

    At first we figured that the brass we were seeing was part of the plating process. but as we cleaned we never cut through it into steel. So Either this shell was dropped in the brass plating tank late Friday night on a long weekend and someone forgot to turn the power off or it's brass. Wouldn't be surprised if it was switched out at some point over the last 88 years.

    [​IMG]

    We're kicking around the Idea of leaving it like this... maybe clean it up just a little more, but not polished to a mirror. Any thoughts or concerns?

    CBB

    We have filled the radiator, found a couple of hose clamps that needed tightened but other then that no leaks. At this point we need to set the timing, dump some fuel in and see what happens! Come on Saturday! Is it 10 am yet??:eek:
     
  23. Leave the radiator brass guys. I think it looks great. Good luck on the start-up party. Wish I could be there.
     
  24. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Great work! :D

    All the Nickel plated shells were made of stamped brass....and the simple painted shells were stamped steel.

    stamped Brass was easier to plate than steel...as it required one less step to produce. :)



    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  25. This build is comig along nice!!!
     
  26. Man, I wish my rad shell was brass. Subscribed.
     
  27. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Well Guys I wish I had better news. But after Trying all Day to get the car started this is the best run we got.:eek: :mad:



    yes it's only one camera from "Far" away with no details. We had 4 running at one point and it was a production to start all of them each time we went to try and start it. At this point one of them had ran the batteries dry.. We almost didn't start this one this time :eek: but Glad I did.
    If you need details of things to help diagnose this please let me know. I can take photo's of anything on Sunday and post them.


    We started by chasing down some issues with the True Fire coil replacement. I installed the sensor upside down. We blew a fuse and re-wired the sensor several times.

    After shooting the above video we ran off to get some starting fluid (as we were not sure the crab was set close. Once we got back with the Starting fluid we lost spark again. If anyone has some first hand experience with this type of ignition please give us some pointers. Because at this point well I'm ready to toss it up in the classified section and look for another solution!!

    Needles to say that the plans to get the new body blocks in and the body on today went down the tubes... Any advise on the starting would be appreciated.
     
  28. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,745

    MrModelT
    Member

    Hot Damn! :D. ....It sounds like a T!

    I wish I could be of more help, but honestly, I'm not all that familiar with the Tru-Fire ignitions. I have head both good and bad.....some love them, others don't care for them. I think I would consult the T-Forum (www.mtfca.com) for answers.

    If it's blowing fuses....you might have a short?

    As for fuel, are you gravity feeding the carb? Fuel pump?

    Try setting the air/fuel adjustment closed.....then opening it a half turn (1/2 turn)...sounds like it might be a tad rich.

    For me...nothing beats a good points/coil Distributor setup, a vintage mag....or even a good set of reliable old wooden Ford buzz coils and correct timer.

    The distributor style ignition setups are fairly cheap and really easy to install (and you can install a Vertex Mag (for a VW) later ) :D

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  29. Crazybillybob
    Joined: Nov 8, 2010
    Posts: 316

    Crazybillybob
    Member
    from Ohio

    Little update,

    The True Fire Coil Box was removed from the car. It was subsequently disassembled and tested. Turns out that there is a control board and a Coil pack (from a a late 98's Ford V8 or a 2002 Mazda 626 4 cylinder). The Control board tested out OK but looks like the coil is shot. We've picked up a new coil I just need to get the old one out and the new one installed.

    If there's any interest In the True Fire or how I was able to test it please let me know I'll Get some photos up and some directions.


    CBB
     
  30. olskool34
    Joined: Jun 28, 2006
    Posts: 2,597

    olskool34
    Member


    I don't fully agree with this statement. I have two shells that I welded together to make my T shell and they were both steel, one was nickel and one was painted. I highly doubt somebody other than Ford plated my nickel shell back in the day.

    [​IMG]
     

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