Projects 1934 3 window HighBoy Build Begins

I love how you take an engine rebuild in stride, it shows what a patient guy you must be!

There's always a reasonable explanation when shit goes wrong... finding it, however, often eludes us! Good job.

My '27 T Roadster build: www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t= 734383

 

It has been a very very slow process to get the 392 worked on. OMG, may you never need any help at the beginning of race season. The Greeley folks were able to get the crank polished and the block honed. But that's it! I have not been ignored...but simply in the que. The shop has stated middle of may PLUS before they can get to re assembly. YIKES. That's too long, the sun is out and I want to put miles on my car. As such, I started making calls to find help SOONER. Rob at Blue Oval has agreed to get on it in two weeks. I went up to Custom Auto and ferried the big pile of parts down to Rob Saturday. He will order new bearings / rings and a gasket kit this week.
When Rob gets her back together ,...he will send back to Greely for run in on the dyno.

It's a small step at a time!

Regards,
George

 

Wow, i'm really late to the party as far as this thread goes.
What an amazingly beautiful, awesome HotRod!
The redline tires rule, great detail.
Hope you can get it back together soon and enjoy all your labour.

 

The heads have been gone back through. Nothing major was needed. The valves were cleaned and leak tests performed with positive results. The only minor change made was to add a washer under each spring to increase pressure.
Rob at Blue Oval was unhappy with the OE rods as they had been ground on to create gaps. Pete was filling me in on the old school thinking about creating these gaps for oil. Geeze...I DONT THINK SO. smile. I decided to buy a new set of rods because it was easier to get new ones than to spend the effort on fixing the old ones. It was a little more expensive, but not much. Additionally, I did not want to have the shop spend the time. I am very anxious to get the engine back together in as high a quality manner as possible with the path of least resistance.

YES, I HOPE TO GET HER BACK TOGETHER SOON.

Regards,
George

 

George, if you can post a pic of the old school mods to the rods, I would like to see them. I am always interested in looking at stuff like that.

 

ok..will do when I get them back

 

Ok , I have two pictures to share tonight. Sorry that one isn't in focus. Rob from Blue Oval Performance has gone back through the 392 after the folks up in Greeley honed it and polished the crank. We have had a few things to sort out. I.E. finding bearing sets for the new rods that are based on the 426 journal size…. finding a new cam as the first one had a strange wear pattern and we didn't want to take a chance. Of course we needed a new set of lifters as well. While degree-ing in the cam, the spec called for +4 degrees. When at 0 on the crank key we had 0 on the cam. Ok, here's where it gets ugly. When we moved to +4 we got +8 on the camshaft. Hello! 4 ON THE CRANK IS 8 ON THE CAM, ????WTF ??????? We swapped to a different manufacturers lower gear and wrongfully assumed a 2 on the crank would give us the 4 we needed. NOPE, It yielded 2??? Well Ok then , put the darn thing on 4. Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle ….. We got the 4 degrees advance that we needed. Over 2 hours later and we had good results on number 1 , intake and exhaust. Then Rob suggested we check the other bank as he has seen right and left sides not ground the same. Setting up the dial indicator didn't take but a minute and then we checked the intake reading to yield great numbers. May I have an amen?

Rob is going to have her finished up Tuesday and we are going to Greeley for DYNO run in Wednesday. Afterwards, we will drop off at Custom Auto for the team to get the 34 back together.

 

AMEN!!!
Glad to see some postive progress on your car. I hate you're having to go through all of this but I suppose it's just one of those oddities of life that keeps it intereting if not frustrating at times too.

 

Good to see you took your hemi to some "blue oval" guys to get it right

 

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From the time I left home this morning headed out to spend the day on the HEMI , until the time I just walked in, was 12 hours! Quite frankly ,I couldn't be more happy about it. I got to Rob's engine building shop before 7:30 . He and Rick the really smart employee were working on finishing up. I pitched in and Rob and I pulled out of the parking about 9 am with the HEMI loaded up in the back of my 1966 Chevy panel truck. We eased up to Greeley in under 2 hours and were met by Leonard.

It took us 30 min to unload, then get the 392 on the dyno, plumbed up and ready to go. We had a few minor issues with the front float on the Holley 735. It took some tinkering to get it to quit dumping gas on our project. The 392 cranked right up and was run at varying RPM's between 2000 and 2350 for 20 min.

It didn't take but a moment for us to notice smoke from the right exhaust pipe. We had put a small hole in the oil filter when bolting the engine to the stand back in Littleton. Rob and I took turns holding a metal pan under the steady dribble for the 20 min it took to run in the engine. Not bad, but I had ear plugs in to help. smile.

Leonard monitored vital statistics and the oil pressure was running 68 lbs so there was no worry.

After run in, we changed the green break in oil, as well as removed and replaced the oil filter. Rob de-capped the filter and we examined the element for debris. ALL CLEAN! Next Leonard added a fresh air duct to the top of the carb with an airflow velocity gauge.

We decided to go to lunch and came back after a short visit to a local restaurant.

Everything was checked for leaks and assurance that nothing was loose. Leonard thought we should check the carb and turned the fuel pump on to find the same problem, Turns out there was a piece of trash in the needle valve. It was cleaned as well as a new gasket swapped out on the float adjustment hardware.

Fuel pump on ….no leaks!

She started right up again and the first Dyno pull resulted in 373 HP and 429 ft lbs of torque. The second pull was better but not much. The console info on the dyno indicated that the fuel mixture was too lean. Time was taken to re-jet the carb as well as insure that the vacuum secondary was working before making another pull. Much better , 383hp and 427 ft lbs! Pretty darn good.This is with factory exhaust manifolds and not my full length headers. PLUS, it was still a little lean. My EFI with 36 lbs/hour sized injectors will be just the right amount of fuel. With just 10% improvement from adding headers we should be able to get up to 421 HP . Now add a little fuel and we should be able to get a very respectable 425 HP. We let her cool down enough to put back in the panel truck and delivered the fresh HEMI to Custom Auto.

Josh and Lance will put her back together over the next week and take the coupe down to the chassis dyno for final tuning with the EFI /stacks instead of the 4 barrel.


Oh Happy day,…getting much closer to wrapping this up.

A big shout out to Rob and Leonard for a productive and fun day.

Regards,
George

 

What do you mean "get the 392 on the dyno"? Do you mean hook up the fuel lines to the dynosaurs (the fuel)?

I'm glad your second break-in was a good one. Sure is frustrating taking a car apart after you just put it together. The worst part of the project in my opinion.

 

Here's a few visuals from the week….
regards,
George

 

Nice work! looking great

 

Thanks…here's the 392 AFTER run in. Rob and Leonard were trying to get the float adjusted. As stated above, they ended up putting the largest jets possible in it for fun. I.E....it doesn't make any difference as the carb and intake were swapped for the EFI set up.
Regards,
George

 

This afternoon is chassis dyno time for final tuning. Based on a 15-18 % loss from flywheel to the rear wheels , I am guessing she will run about 350- 360 hp on the chassis dyno. Josh will send a video later and advise what the numbers are? While it doesn't make a bit of difference.....it is still fun. The whole point of the exercise is to tune for best performance at idle while keeping a nice torque curve for the occasional blast.
Regards,
George

 

Got to keep my eye out for that dyno video. Those are always fun to watch.

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

The results were 276 HP at the rear wheels.

4 different runs were made while adjusting the Holley Fast ECU settings.
The last run up went to 120 MPH and that was more than enough! smile

Thanks Lance and Josh....

Regards,
George

 

Found these on bangshift here: http://bangshift.com/gallery/pinkees-rod-shop-open-house-2014-goodguys/ No photographer listed to give credit.

 

Thanks for posting the pics. ( Much Appreciated) I put the first 100 plus miles on her over the weekend at the Good Guys event. She has a short punch list of things to fix. Two simple items, ( the rear view mirror needs to be moved up and I need to add a convex mirror on the passenger side.) 3 medium ones ( the brakes are a little spongy... re-bleed? , the door latches need to have more play in the actuator rods....they are adjustable and the valve train is too noisy....seems to be at no 5 or 7) and ONE PAIN IN THE KISTER.( the idle creeps up after she gets warmed up....one or more of the butter fly valves are not allowing the bank to fully close upon throttle release...IE: after they expand with heat) IT's going to be a tough one to dial this in.

Josh will work on the new bracket for the rear view mirror as well as the actuator rods. I'll bring her home to work on the brakes and then send her out to have the fuel injection idle issue worked.

She is sooooo fast, that it just makes you smile. The big elephant out front really screws up cornering due to all the weight . She runs straight down the road nicely and I was pleasantly surprised with ride comfort... Even more so when going over rail road tracks. I expected to be bounced off the road and surprised with the good manners.

I cruised the Fair Plex loop in very congested traffic multiple times over the weekend. There were also lots of people to ease through carefully on Saturday. I watched the temp gauge with caution as I did not have the auxiliary fan on. She stayed steady at 190 degrees. I was so afraid that she would over heat and embarrass me as the cool rod that wouldn't run. I was ready to kick in more air flow if needed, but I really wanted to see what would happen? She fortunately stayed cool and it gave me a huge sigh of relief. The lack of hood sides as well as the velocity stack openings for the filters are big contributors to letting the heat escape.

I had a lot of good questions over the weekend and some not so good ones as well. Each time someone asked about what the motor was...Pete would get very serious and tell them it was a Buick. Oh My, you would have to turn away and try not to get caught grinning.

Regards,
George

 

Sounds bloody awesome George.

 

Looking great with the red accent lines!

 

Congrats on enjoying those miles! You and the crew did a fantastic job building the car, I know you're very proud of the accomplishment.

 

It has been a while since I posted progress on the after build debug status. The brakes were not a problem at all and did not require any help once the idle issue was resolved. I am getting ahead of my self. Let's start from the Good Guys Loveland show. The doors would not stay latched and would pop open at any bump. Thank goodness for deadbolts as no harm ,...just frustration. Josh pulled the "bear claw" big latches out and installed a brand new set. Can you say WORTHLESS???? Still popped open all the time. SIDE STORY: ... to make matters worse, Pete got stuck in my coupe at the NSRA Pueblo show. It wasn't funny "THEN", as he was hot and was literally locked in the car when the dead bolt was stuck shut. Pete could not be moved for love nor money. I had to get his legs and bend him up over the shifter to get him out of the car. Oops! I can look back at it now and get a good chuckle out of it! But to say I was not only embarrassed, but also worried about Pete, is an extreme understatement. To close off this item,....the smaller one "hook" bear claw latch was swapped out by Josh last week and yielded successful resolution. I can only say WTF when researching the on line posts about the finicky large latches. The company website says to use the smaller latch if you are having issues with the large one. WELL DUH! It is the same bolt pattern with one less hole. IE..3 instead of 4 so a useless bolt was added to fill the hole. For no reason at all, the large ones do not work on my coupe. For another unknown reason , the small ones are working like a dream. The doors shut nicely and only open when they are asked to. (NOT when you least expect them to pop open.)
As for the dead bolts, I am very pleased with Josh's adding of levers instead of small round knobs so that there is enough meat to hold to. You can now rotate the shaft rather easily for actuating the pin. Another debug item closed.

Next...I tightened up the e-brake cable and have to shout out to LOKAR and ask them to please change the adjustment design. Same as my 48... the nut is stuck between the right and left cables going to the rear end and not just a little difficult but a real pain in the back side. The block just needs to be widened and would be a simple design fix. The issue is closed but not without being grumpy about the difficulty to do so. While we are on the topic of Lokar , I would like to say that the shifter is simply first class! I passed all but one Safety 23 inspection item and the neutral safety switch was easy to adjust the banana bracket to get me back to the NSRA crew and successfully score my Safety 23 for 2014. Another issue closed.
When driving the car, the rear view mirror location was about 2 inches too low due to the rake of the car. It had to be moved up which was easy enough. My issue was aesthetics! Moving the mirror up left unused holes and leaving the screws there looked goofy. Josh made a new stainless steel bracket to utilize all four holes. While it wasn't needed, it looks like it was supposed to be that way! I can now see the traffic behind me instead of the clouds. The other mirror issue is the need for a convex mirror on the passenger side. Adding an aftermarket one proved worthless as the shape of the mirror was barely different than a flat one. Well phooey! Pete has an auto store peel and stick convex mirror on his 34 and it works well. SO,... to Josh's dismay as it isn't so pretty, I now have a peel and stick on the flat mirror and it by goodness works! I really prefer to be able to make lane changes while being able to see! grin. Issue closed.

The single most daunting open issue to correct was that car idled ROUGHLY and very HIGH at 1350 rpm,. Additionally it ran extremely rich and had no manners unless it was running really fast. While a lot of fun to drive fast, it isn't enjoyable in traffic.

I gave up with trying local experts as I kept burning money and not getting resolution.
I called for professional help. I.E. Bob Ream from Arizona.( Imagine Injection) He is very good with fuel injection and offers a remote tune service. You send him an airplane ticket and pictures of your set up. He flies in for the day and you end up very happy and also very much more educated on what basic set up improvements should be made to allow success. These are not related to EFI. These are old fashioned improvements to be used in any set up. I'm going to go through the list with you so that you will see that any of us are capable of the fixes.
1. The butterfly valves had very slight burrs from the manufacturing process. The burrs were causing the valves to stick in the bores. Bob had me rotate each disk on a piece of gray scotch brite at a 30 degree angle until each side of the disk was burr free. They seal on the edges so the important thing was to only remove the burr and no materials on the edge. It wasn't hard, just slow to make sure I did a good job for Bob whom was inspecting my work. When I finally got one to meet Bob's approval, he said for me to give him 7 more just like it! I was on it and enjoyed taking part in the process.
2. The factory Hilborn shafts are tied or coupled together in the middle. Bob took the couplings out and literally threw them in the trash. He replaced them with couplers from Kinsler that allowed for rotational adjustment between the shafts. They also allow for expansion front and back. This is a big deal as number one could be closed and numbers 6 and 8 still open a few thousandths. Simple and way cool!
3. While still on the shafts, Bob added torsional return springs to both banks. With the throttle and kick down cables removed, the linkage was smooth and operated freely. Bob and I were all smiles. No more sticky binding issues. Just nice!
4. Bob reconnected the tranny kick down cable and pulled the linkage to find that the throttle was only opening about 5/8ths of the way. The tranny cable was being pulled all the way until there was no place left to go and preventing the throttle from opening any wider. The cable mount on the shaft arm was simply located too far out. It was relocated to 1.5 inches from center point . Problem fixed.

All mechanicals are working properly after about 3 hours of work. It is time to start her up. First turn of the key and she fires right up without issue. However, she still idles like a race horse. The IAC ( Idle Air Control valve) has settings adjustment in the software but it they do not result in the changes needed. Hmmmm, Bob knows it's and issue and pulls the schematic up on line. Something is wrong,...but what??? Head scratching , more head scratching and calls his son for a discussion. They decide that the wrong IAC valve has been used and to make it work, the wiring should not be ABCD, but BADC. Bob had a pin extractor with him ( standard weather pack) and swapped the wires out in the connector. AHhhhhh, 800 rpm and full control with the laptop. Idle issue fixed! The rest of this IAC story is that when the previous experts were trying to fix it, they swapped the first IAC valve with a newer one. The old to new swap requires a different pin out. I.E. the need for a different wiring hook up. Geezem , all of the issues were minor and could have been prevented with finesse only available through experience.

We logged a lot of road time letting the computer learn and Bob kept constant check on fuel mixture. He had me drive while he monitored the diagnostics . Whether idling at a traffic light or deliberately driving in low gears to run the RPM up, she just behaved nicely.

The other feed back I would like to share has to do with build planning for positive engine temperature results. A good 4 core radiator, a modern efficient water pump and a good fan system had me cool as a cucumber while sitting stand still in line in Pueblo.
The 56 BUG in front of me with the LT1 had to be pushed as it wouldn't run without over heating. The Model A pick up behind me had to remove his hood sides and stop and restart each time we moved. The 392 had perfect idle characteristics ( thanks Bob) and never exceeded 180 degrees.. I had so much fun needling the fellow in the truck about why he kept turning his engine off.

While we all know that the new build debug process is inevitable , it is not a whole lot of fun. Each time I turn the key and she fires up, I feel a little more comfortable. I have full trust in the 48 as it just runs and runs without fail. I am "pretty sure" that the 34 is finally there. I only need to put miles on her to allow her to earn my trust.

Regards,
George

 

Thanks for sharing the info about the minor changes that made a huge difference. Those sorts of details are important, and you wouldn't know to look for them otherwise.

 

Patman,
Your welcome. My dad used to tell me that learning was paying tuition in the school of experience. Bob was a great professor as he was good at explaining the "what and why" of his actions. When I asked him about his willingness to share, he commented that it was good for the hobby. He went on to share that he enjoyed helping and that making fuel injection simpler and removing fear of fuel injection would be good for his business long term. Had you asked me about it 3 months ago, I would have shared that it was a nightmare and you should stick with carburetors.

All good now!

 

Stranded by my baby: With 380 miles on her clock and nothing but good vibes from the debug process being completed, she sputtered , died and then caught back to life. Hmmm? Then she sputtered again...we have all been there before "out of gas"? I rolled the wheel right and left to move any remaining gas into the tank to the pick up. NOTHING . I rolled along silently down the non crowded street in hopes that I could glide into the gas station within sight ahead. Oh well, not enough momentum and I pulled her tight to the curb and turned on my signal to alert folks that might come up on me. The fuel gauge reads 1/8th tank and my first thought is that maybe it isn't accurate? I called my wife for help and no answer. OK, I then called Nick and he says he is almost home and will swap to his truck and swing over with some gas. A fellow enthusiast pulled up behind me in his 32 roadster to offer help.( How embarrassing!) I sheepishly explain that I am out of gas and help is on it's way. Nick shows up with a full five gallons and we pour it in to find she will start but will not stay lit. We hang a while discussing potential issues and try it again. VROOM. I try to hurriedly get to the station and she continues to behave like she is out of gas. SOMETHING isn't right. I fill her up and Nick 'FatKoop' offers to follow me home. It doesn't take me long before she dies again. FULL TANK OF GAS???Hmmmm???, It dawns on me that I have been here before. 20 years ago in my 37 3 window on the way to Knoxville. I bet the FUEL FILTER is clogged up. When you stop the engine , enough fuel seeps through the filter to fill up the pump reservoir. You start it up and run until empty again. We did this for miles on the Knoxville trip until we found a muffler shop to let us use their lift and tools to change the filter. I called Bob at Imagine Injection Saturday night and scheduled a called for Sunday morning for Bob to look at the ECU software remotely. I hooked up my laptop to the car and down loaded remote viewing software for Bob to look at and drive my laptop in Denver from his office in Phoenix.

The first step was to validate all the sensors were working. With the car idling, I pulled the water temp sensor connector and we verified it showed an error on the status. Same for the air temp sensor on velocity stack number 8. Ok., That's a good thing. Now let's look at the air fuel ratio. Hmmm, very lean. We agree that I need to pull both fuel filters , back flush and then retry. If you are unfamiliar , a l00 micron filter goes before the pump and a 24 micron filter goes after the pump. Fuel injectors don't like trash! I am flustered that I leaned into a header with my bare leg and really want to go inside and cut some aloe from the kitchen plant to apply to my new badge of courage. Ouch.

Late Sunday afternoon , I decide I need to go back out to the shop and look at what will be needed to be done. No fuel shut off valve is a bummer. I can pinch the line off but decide I really need to order an in line cut off valve to install while I am at it. I draw up a little diagram to be able to count fittings and plan my approach to re-routing as short as possible. I went back inside and ordered the needed -8AN Aeroquip fittings and hose. Now it's wait for Friday when they are scheduled to be here by USPS.

I didn't sleep well Sunday night as I was worried about the big Weldon A600-A fuel pump. Had I damaged it while running it dry? It was noisy before, but now it is REALLY , REALLY LOUD. I called Weldon Monday morning and connected with the nicest as well as extremely knowledgeable Jim Craig. I went through the whole drama with him and the first thing he keyed in on was my comment about the pump being noisy. He offered up that their pumps are very quiet and should not make the noise I was worried about. After a short discussion and a subsequent call to Josh, we had our root cause for the noise. While the 3/8ths check ball vent is large enough, airflow is constricted by the step down fitting with 1/4 inch line to vent the tank. The hose I.D. is only an 1/8th inch and the tank isn't being vented fast enough to allow the pump to run. It is fighting to get enough fuel.

I will pull the small vent line and exchange for a larger one this week . I need to do something while waiting on my fuel cut off valve. Jim asked me what PSI I had the fuel pressure set to? I don't know as the instructions say the regulator is pre set at 50 psi. He suggested that I add a fuel pressure gauge at the fuel rail inlet and fine tune the line pressure . ( WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING) I found the -6AN fitting with 1/8 NPT port along with a 60 PSI gauge on line and they will be here Thursday.

I am still worried about fuel pump damage and have ordered a replacement to insure I am in good shape. Jim at Weldon has offered to have the factory check out my suspect unit. If repair is needed, they will rebuild for me so that I will be able to keep it on hand as a back up.

All and all, not too bad a deal. I had the problem close to home. Got help from a friend (Nick) . Then I had two super folks coach me on the root cause and corrective actions needed. Bob Ream at Imagine Injection and Jim Craig at Weldon. I will install the fuel shut off valve and fuel pressure gauge this week. Then I will pull the filters to back wash the 74 and 24 micron stainless screens. Finally , exchange the pump and give her a try.

The fuel pump should be quiet with the new larger vent hose and the 392 should be back to rumbling.

I'll let ya'll know how it turns out. I never get tired of the process. Even with problems, the effort to fix them is a lot of fun.

Regards,
George

 

How are the Kinmonts from Johnsons working out ?? If you already spoke of such....I apologize....I have not read all of your thread......I was just using the SEARCH function with these brake pieces, and found you. Nice looking car. I'll have to read it all when I get home.

 

They are regular disk brakes with "PRETTY COVERS" and worked out just fine. They really dressed up the front end.
Regards,
George

 

Lol, that's what I meant. Yes. Beautiful car.....I HAD A GREAT TIME reading everything that you have done. THAT is one beautiful car sir. Thanks for the reply back, by the time I got my reading done, I already knew. Perfect car.