Hot Rods supercharged banger modified...now has a V8

Yeah....in a tractor they are rated at 23HP and the truck they are 45HP. From what I've read most of the guts are the same as the v8..valves pistons etc. differences with the tractor motor are oil pan ,fuel pump, carburation and a bellhousing adapter.

Benefits of this motor is the bearings and oiling system.

Downfall is very little speed equipment.

They were used in midgets back in the Day
Clark

 

All this time I thought that was a B motor. Is this the same as a Ferguson motor? Bob

 

Don't think so....it's basically a 9n Ford. They used them in trucks and cars (never seen a car) in 41 &42,they replaced the v8 60. I guess they're pretty rare.

I was waiting to see who would notice the motor
Clark

 

That blower is AWESOME!!

 

Hey, Clark;

Lookin' good. Should be a fun deal. On the S/C, I don't think you've got to worry much about too much boost, as IIRC, the Graham s/c only put out ~ 2-3 psi. Granted, that was on a 6, & ~ 50% bigger than your banger. The last time I saw one ( which I missed for $50. USD, cause I didn't want to carry it around Jefferson all day w/o a cart, stupid me... ), the impeller vanes weren't machined to a high tolerance, nor was the case clearance tight. So I'd guess that w/a bit of trimming, you could get the internal clearances tightened up to get maybe 6-8psi. Would have to check the pulley ratios, not to mention the angle-gear-drive for the s/c, to see if they'd stand up to the strain. Should be ok, esp at the rpm the banger will run. Boost would be limited by the tip speed of the impeller, measured in feet/second, just don't go sonic. Somehow, I don't think you'll have to worry about that aspect... .

Always liked the side-winder s/c, as shown in the Fronty pics, similar to some boardtrack & indy units. Not real efficient, esp compared to a turbo, but gotta be the best looks going. Graham was the next best looking one, I think.

If you wouldn't mind too much, when you tear it down for checking/refreshing, would you take some detailed pics, & measurments of the gear drive, blower case & impeller? It's been ~ 20 yrs since I've seen one up close.

Marcus..

 

I'd like to do a cam for it but really have no clue on what to do. Racer brown us not too far away. Thought about checking with him for a regrind.....but not air what it should be ground to.
Clark

 

Skid....I rode in the 41 this came out of....had your typical 3 speed. It would not get out of it's own way in a heavy panel truck
Clark

 

Do you have any of the truck pulleys? I'll have to check with my illegitimate step father too.

Your motor is cool and will have them scratching their heads....gonna have a car ready for fall?
Clark

 

With the minimal HP....I think I want some sorta overdrive
Clark

 

Skidmark,that engine is a 134-172 Ford tractor engine. they used them in industrial equipment with that bellhousing in the '60's-'70's. I have one laying around now. How about starting a thread on them? i put one in an A and it hauled ass,but the thread was shut down,several years ago.

 

You would not by chance have a picture of the other side. Hemmings noted that the 4cyl N block used in the truck had the governor replaced with a fuel pump.

also what's the sn stamp read out of curiosity.

Thirdly if planing to use said motor, what bell housing are you going to use.
Thanks Adam

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I hope this works out for you, because It's going to be really cool when it does!!

 

Out plowing......Here are a couple of pics of the motor. I got the bellhousing, fuel pump (block off plate) and the motor mounts. I couldn't read the numbers on it. I did find it had an 8n cast on it. I thought it was supposed to be an 9n.
Clark

 

On an 8n the governor goes where the greasy plate with diagonal bolts are close to the fuel pump. Post '48 8n has side distributor. It should already have adjustable lifters too.

 

That is so damn cool.....

 

Skid...I've been keeping an eye out or one ...the cool part is they have an angle drive sorta like the blower

No bod ....thanks for the info. I really don't know too much about the motor and all info is good. So the front dist. makes it a 9n but the block has 8n cast in it.
Clark

 

What's inside one of these chargers any way? Just a big impeller?

 

aone...I would think...haven't had it apart yet

Skid here's a pic of a mag
Clark

 

Bill's are different...for the V8
Clark

 

Yes, 9n was started in '39, 2n was started in '42, 8n was started in '48. POST '48 was side dist. Clark, I may have a tractor mag from a industrial engine.

 

So, if you set the front end up right will this be called a York Rake? Bob

 

noboD...... it should be a 9n with the distributor up front and it came out of a 41 Ford panel. But it's cast 8n. It has the fuel pump...so it can't be a tractor block. The mag would be cool!!

Bob....York Rake ??!! I'm gonna plow through the competition at the ROG.
What number should the car have....9n
Clark

 

Should work great. A flathead is especially suited to supercharging because you can't raise the compression very high without choking off breathing, and low compression engines love superchargers. The supercharger, by over filling the cylinder, raises the compression pressure while also overcoming the restricted breathing old engines have.

The Graham supercharger is a long living, reliable unit. Basically one moving part (the impeller) and a gear drive. It uses plain bearings so you must see to oiling. No doubt you will take it apart and rebuild it, usually all they need is bearings but you can check with the Graham collectors.

The Graham six was 217 cu in and the supercharger gave it about a 4 pound boost. So, if your engine is smaller in displacement it should give a higher pressure in proportion.

They provide little pressure at low speed but boost climbs rapidly at higher speed. This works well with the old flathead type engines, that were tuned for smooth low and medium speed power but ran out of breath at high speeds.

They had no blowoff valve so they were geared not to overboost at higher speed. You can get more pressure by speeding up the pulley ratio. I would try it stock first, and be satisfied with 4 or 5 pounds of boost. This will give you about 1/3 more HP.

About compression ratios and pressure. Your compression ratio should look like your fuel octane. Your engine was probably made to run on straight run, unleaded tractor gas that is the next thing to lamp oil. About 50 octane and maybe 5:1 or 4.5:1 compression.

On modern unleaded regular, 87 octane, you could go to 8.7:1 only, it would be practically impossible to go that high on your engine.

But, if you had a 6:1 static ratio and your supercharger over filled your cylinders by 1/3 then you would have 8:1 which is more like it.

Since atmospheric pressure is 14.7 PSI, then a boost of 5 pounds would do it.

Naturally these are not exact figures, just an illustration. There are other factors involved. For example a modern OHV engine has thermodynamic advantages the flathead can only dream of, and can run higher compression ratios safely. This is why I think your engine would do really well on 4 - 5 pounds of boost, with minimal modifications. No doubt you could go higher but you would be pushing it into a high stress, short life situation.

Short answer, the Graham supercharger will look cool, and give a genuine performance improvement without killing reliability and engine life.

 

Incidentally Graham claimed the supercharger homogenized and vaporized the gas even when it was not providing pressure. Therefore the supercharged engine ran smooth and got as good mileage as the unsupercharged engine.

 

Could you mount it on the right side and drive it from the governor hole? Granted you couldn't change ratios (pulleys) easily then. But it would aim right at the intake manifold then.

 

Rusty......Thank You!!!!! great info. Guess I'm gonna back away from the high compression head....that takes it up to 7:1.

What do you think about having a cam ground?

Alchemy....I saw the governor hole when I took the pics...would be really cool and trick. But I think it will work better on the left side. The blower actually faces the right . It will have to go over the head But I think it will work great. The only thing that may get in the way is the lower radiator hose.
Clark

 

7:1 should be ok, if it knocks you can burn hi test. A cam is a good idea. Don't go too radical on the cam if you use the blower.

It all depends what you want to do. 7:1 compression and the supercharger could get you enough horsepower that you have to start worrying about the bottom end and cooling.

 

The mag I have looks like your picture, Clark. I took it from either a generator or welder. It's a Wico, I'm sure it's low rpm.

 

I didn't know mags were rated for different rpms. I'm interested if you want to get rid of it.
Clark

 

I guess what i'm saying is the ENGINE was probably slow speed so I guess the advance curve would be made accordingly. Will you be at Posers?