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Technical Do you need to soder or butt crimp wire slices?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Koolman, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. Koolman
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 308

    Koolman
    Member

    What would be bad about splicing electrical automobile wire by twisting the ends together and placing heat shrink over the splice without a butt crimp connection or sodering?
     
  2. that's just pain crappy workmanship , and they may come apart. use butt connectors or solder them and then cover with heat shrink tubing.

    buy yourself a good soldering iron and you can use it the rest of your life. also get a GOOD crimp tool. i've had mine for for years and still serves me well
     
  3. Everything

    ( what would be bad ?)
     
  4. ChopTopJimmy
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,451

    ChopTopJimmy
    Member

    If you don't mind that your ride catches on fire go ahead with your plan. Otherwise you need to make a good termination to keep the thing from heating up due to the resistance of a bad connection. In the very least, butt splice it. for a great connection, solder the two pieces together and heat shrink it. Not sure why you would even have to ask this unless you are 1) Cheap or 2) Lazy... Do it right and don't be sorry later.
     

  5. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,770

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Agree with all posts above--setting your self up for a failure from the start--solder or/and crimp and cover with heat shrink--don't use wire nuts either. Get a good crimp tool as well-Stacon or Thomas and Betts
     
  6. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,730

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    I prefer crimping with a good tool, not keen on soldering as you can't control the flow of solder up the cable which can be brittle, the twisting method is a bad idea full stop !!!
     
  7. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,589

    117harv
    Member

  8. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    If you actually feel that they need to be soldered, there are solder filled theminals available. You just have to heat them with a heat gun, and the solder flows onto the wire, supposed to keep from using too much solder. I just use crimp connectors and have never had a problem with connections.
     
  9. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    I always use aircraft splices and terminals along with a good crimping tool. Why use 60-70 year old technology and solder wires when state of the art connectors are available with no chance of a cold solder joint?
     
  10. Yep, soldering is bad.... Those who know won't solder electrical.
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    uh...because I'm working on a 60 year old car? ;)
     
  12. Soldering was common pre-war, but by the fifties you would be very hard-pressed to find a solder connection on any OEM harness. All that aircraft building during the war showed Detroit a better way.
     
    Garagekulture13 likes this.
  13. Koolman
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 308

    Koolman
    Member

    Sounds like soldering is too old school and unsafe even on traditional applications.
    How would you splice 3 wires together? Any crimp connector for that? Wire nut?
    Thanks for all the input, I am pretty confused.
     
  14. Soldering and sex have a lot in common.


    Soldering is bad -
    IF you do it wrong
    IF you use the wrong stuff
    IF you get instructed by someone who doesn't know what they are doing
    IF you get it too hot
    IF you don't get it hot enough

    Crimps are almost idiot proof.

    There's no argument that almost everyone can get a good crimp joint if handed the proper connector and the proper tool. Problem is that 1/2 of them don't know what's proper, and will do it anyway with the wrong stuff because ... Well it's like sex too.

    Also no argument that some guys can solder correctly and most don't know how yet.
    Just like some guys can fuck like porn stars.
     
  15. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    It still has it's uses. Joining two wires is not one of them. Why don't you Google search the how to's and get an idea. What you're doing isn't rocket science.
     
  16. Splicing multiple wires can be a challenge. You can get crimp-on 'splice caps', both insulated and uninsulated, that will rated for various combinations of wires/sizes. I like these: http://www.idealindustries.com/prod...rminals_crimps/crimp_connector_splice_cap.jsp

    ... but you can use conventional butt splices if you can insert the wire into them and 'fill' the barrel enough to get a 'full' crimp. You can 'double' the wire (fold the end over) to do this sometimes. The key to a proper crimp is the right crimp tool, and then proper 'strain relief' of the connection. The wire insulation is your biggest factor in vibration resistance, making sure that it's continuous across the joint will prevent breakage. Use a shrink tube equal to the wire insulation thickness and overlap it onto the insulation at least the length of the crimp fitting.

    Never use wire nuts, as they will fall off with vibration over time.
     
  17. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,875

    Larry T
    Member

    I'll take a Western Union Splice over a Butt Crimp any day of the week.

    If you solder be sure to use rosin core solder, not acid core.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
  18. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,820

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    I use butt connectors & then solder them & finish with shrink wrap on top of it. I never heard that soldering was bad.
     
  19. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    All electronics connections are soldered on the circuit boards. Why do they use old technology on modern technology?
     
  20. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    I grew up soldering because my dad was an ET in the Air Force. I did what he did and it worked, BUT it's not meant for splicing. Soldering has it's place. The bad rap comes from people not know when and HOW to use it. Soldering is still done today. Mainly circuit boards.

    Crimped properly and shrink wrapped is the way to go.
     
  21. I have a 30 gallon tote spilling over the top with engine wiring harnesses. My guess is the range is 85-2013 with most in the mid 2000s. How many OEM soldered splices do you want me to show you?
     
  22. woodiewagon46
    Joined: Mar 14, 2013
    Posts: 2,269

    woodiewagon46
    Member
    from New York

    For those of us that were in the service we know that Mil-Spec is crimp, never solder. The reason is simple, you can wiggle a crimped connection all day and it won't break, a soldered connection will, you won't see soldered connections in aircraft. Get the correct crimping tool and cut the wires to the recommended length and you are good to go.
     
  23. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,299

    upspirate
    Member

    If you come across these P.O.S. throw them out...don't ever use them!!!
     

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  24. luckyfasteddie
    Joined: Feb 23, 2006
    Posts: 129

    luckyfasteddie
    Member

    I remove the plastic covering on the butt connectors . Strip the wire back just enough to go in the metal tube , slide shrink wrap over the wire , crimp metal tube good , slide shrink wrap over joint , when heated , joint is barely larger in diameter the the wire . Strong ,looks good and no bumps if you have to bundle some wires together .
     
  25. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,791

    tfeverfred
    Member Emeritus

    I wish I could find the guy that invented that crap. That's a stranger that needs an ass whoopin'.
     
  26. 53 COE
    Joined: Oct 8, 2011
    Posts: 688

    53 COE
    Member
    from PNW

  27. Hotrodmyk
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 2,302

    Hotrodmyk
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Northwest HAMBers


    3M I believe. And, oh yes, I can't count the number of times I had to go out on road calls and fix trailer lights because of them. They're AWFUL!
     
  28. txturbo
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,771

    txturbo
    Member

    I solder all connections. Crimped wires have pulled out on me before. And yes....soldered connections are still used today.
     
  29. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    Solder I told my brother in law to solder all connections on his race car twenty years ago,he told me he had a super crimping tool and didn't need to solder them,well we went to Atco and he came around the turn and came out from under the over pass, and went to pull a burnout, and the car coughed and dies,after checking for fuel and ignition problems we fond the crimped wire for the MSD had pulled out.Needless to say he solders all now.
     
  30. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I solder and use heat shrink as strain relief. Been doing it that way for 46+ years on cars, trucks, tractors, boats and motorcycles. Haven't had a failure yet, but I suppose I will tomorrow.......
     

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