Anyone seen this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/251369342000?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 There's some doubt on the net as to it's originality. I dunno, looks like the wrong intake, wrong valve covers, wrong blower to me. I guess anyone could have stamped the block with the lettering. Interesting story. Wish someone could prove it to be original. I would love to have that thing if it was the real deal. Could be a marine motor with some bolt on goodies.... Thoughts? Mac
Sounds legit if Danny agrees. BTW, Challenger and the "new" Challenger will be part of a huge LSR display at the GNRS this year.
That's what I was thinking, but I read this on Hot Rod Mag website: "Oh boy, I think I've opened a can of worms with this! I sent my buddy this eBay listing because he's a Pontiac and Mickey Thompson fan. He is F/B friends with Danny Thompson and he shared it on his page. Well, Danny says he has never spoken to the seller and that the engine is NOT one of the engines out of Challenger I. The seller posted a reply/rebuke reiterating the fact that he had spoken to Danny at length about it and had confirmed it was indeed one of the Challenger engines. Its going to be interesting to see how this plays out!"
A lot of years between the Challenger I and the spare engine, so whos to say the engine even had the induction system in the first place and was just a long block assy, Person could have put those other parts on it at any time after just to make it look more complete. I would not dwell on it.
The seller is Alex, Axel from the Shifters car club , he's being straight up with everyone on this & evenput his own phone number on the auction , people are encouraged to check it out in person, can't say any fairer than that.
Wow. Legit or not that would've been cool in my old '59 Star Chief. Here are the pix from the auction so they'll still be available here after the auction listing disappears...
I have one question, I can't remember exactly, but did the two engines on the left side drive the front wheels and the two engines on the right drive the rear wheels. If this is the set up, like Ivo's showboat, there would be no need to reverse rotate an engine?
I called Fritz Voigt about this engine. He said it might be one of the Challenger engine but no way to tell for sure. The 306 SD heads fit the time frame of the car and the Thompson covers are correct. Stupid to have that 6 by 2 carb adapter on there. Just my opinion. Fritz also said seeing the internals would help. Isky roller cam and lifters, possible rev-kit. My money is that the reserve won't be met and its a no-sale.
Ya for sure he's upfront, and I'm not accusing him of dishonesty. I was thinking maybe the long block had some parts added to it over the years to make it look complete. Maybe even before he got it. Who knows... It's cool, I just REALLY wish there was some provenance with this thing. I'd love to have it. A letter from Danny would make the difference between a $5k motor and a $25k motor..... Mac
If the engines are backwards, the rotation needs to be reversed, either in the engines or by flipping the axle upside down, as was done on the Showboat.
I don't doubt the seller's honesty in any way but when it comes to things of historical value (and a Challenger engine is certainly one) a paper trail is a necessity. Without a tangible provenance its nothing more than a good story.
Flipping the axle? I've seen this idea posted before & I can't figure out the concept of how this is supposed to change the rotational direction when the imput will still be in the same direction as it originally was. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Okay, let me explain. The pinion gear is on one side of the ring gear. When you turn the rear end over you put the pinion on the other side of the ring gear, this will make the rear end turn in the opposite way with the engine turn in the original direction. As far as I remember this is what Ivo did with the front drive axle. With the two left motors connected in line at the rear and front of the cranks, this way those engines ran in the original direction and the car whent forward.
That is the idea they are talking about. With the engines turned around and driving the front wheels you need to make the front tires run backwards. If you put the rear end in the normal position the front tires would be turning toward the rear of the car and the back tires would be turning toward the front of the car. But if you flip the housing over the rear tires will be turning in the correct direction for this configuration. I know from experience that flipping a rear does that. When we were kids some friends flipped the rear in a 50 Ford over to move the spring perches to the top of the axle to rake the car. Off the jackstands the car had 3 speeds in reverse and one forward. Don
Ivo used Halibrand QC rear ends and installed the ring gear on the opposite side as normal (with a little machine work) for the foward left side axle/differential, the lower shafts were still on the bottom of the gear housings, nothing was turned upside-down
On the Challenger I all 4 of the engines were pointing towards the center of the car nose to nose, each engine had its own clutch & trans AND its own rear end housing(QC) with one drive axle coming out and the inner axles were coupled together internaly (the axle tubes were welded together in the middle) I believe the counter rotation of 2 of the engines were not because drivetrain placement but were done for rotational torque stability. Ivo told me that because the engines in the SB were set with the left side engines turned around from the right side that engine torque would counteract the other and act as a GYRO to keep the car straight. Now that was on asphalt and for only 9 seconds. Mick Figured that by changeing the rotation on one engine on each side (and installing the ring gear to offset the rotation) so that the force would rotate into the middle of the car would help the handling on the salt for which traction is very limited and there was no downforce applied from the car itself. Without doing this the car at speed would torque steer and most likely spin.
But the imput direction does not change so the output direction also does not change, unless your meaning to flip the gears with reverse cut, like a front 4x4 axle. I see the axle as a helecopter blade locked in a stationary position with the power transferred to the hub. No matter how far it travels in a revolution, the transfer of power will not change. That occurs at the transmission. Only rotating the entire drivetrain 180degrees will change the direction. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Hey shooter, draw a wheel on a piece of paper draw an arrow going around the wheel clockwise, hold the paper out in front of you, the arrow is going clockwise, now turn the paper over and look THORUGH the paper from the back side, you will see the arrow is no going in the counter clockwise direction. this is a very simple explanation, but it is correct turning an axle upside down reverses the direction with the same input. Godspeed MrC.
Essentially that is the concept. If the pinion gear is 'pushing' the ring gear down in one position and you flip the diff over the pinion will be 'lifting' the ring gear up. Yes it will be driving the the ring gear on the back side of the gear teeth (like it was being driven continually in reverse) which may or may not be a problem but I think the bigger problem may be the lack of lubrication to the pinion bearing in modern diffs with the pinion below c/l.
But if u flip an axle over but miunt it in the same location & input is still the same how would that change the rotational direction? If you leave the drive shaft mounted & spin the axle around 280degrees, the input will still be rotating in the same direction . Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Speaking of turning things upside down.... This thread sure took a different direction than intended!
shooter, think about the top of the drive wheel on a normal car moving forward, the tread moves from the rear of the car to the front of the car.
Putting the pinion on the other side of the ring gear changes the direction the ring gear rotates. A high pinion, reverse cut 4x4 axle is not an upside down axle. The pinion stays on the same side of the ring. The coast and drive sides of the teeth are switched.
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