History NHRA Junior Stock

My memory is failing me. What classes were Junior Stock? I remember A-D being Top Stock and E on down being Junior Stock at our Local Strip. Was there a National Standard in NHRA?

 

Had them with me at York just in case you showed up. Sent you a PM.

 

This was the first year for me and I was a surprised at some of the cars as well. Maybe if we can get enough cars together he'll let us run a seperate deal even if it's for grins.

Hope to see many more in this line up next year.
Yeah thats a M/P car in there but we'll let him slide.

 

Now thats a cool pic^^^ Dig them deliverys. Whats up Tim! Haven't talked to ya for a bit, or Wheezier for that matter. His 56 would look good in that lineup.

 

Yes it would. Are you coming to MoKan this year?

 

Those '57 wagons and deliveries ruled the roost back in the Junior Stock days. Heres Joe Allread in the Car Craft magazine project "How to Build the Ultimate Junior Stocker" '57 wagon versus Alabamas, Jerry Hallman in his delivery.

 

I read the 1969 NHRA Rulebook today again since that seems to be the favorite year of Stocker racing before the bottom dropped out. How the guys read under "automatic transmissions" that Hydro's were legal in a Delivery was beyond my wildest imagination but I did chuckle when reading it. I'm guessing a lot of imagination made those days the best.
I have a Hydro that needs a rebuild but also have the chevy bell, torus members and starter for the Chevy as well as the driveshaft for a Hydro in the 57 so I'm halfway there. Anyone out there that ran one in a Delivery with great success?? I would love to hear about it....

 

Can't say for sure, but rules revisions were printed in National Dragster whenever there were changes. That sedan delivery transmission rule may have been a mid year thing. I just read my 69 rule book too, and it says "must be of the same year, make and model as the car; however, any combination of gears may be used, provided they are installed in a stock housing." NHRA even backed up on that one, when, I believe it was Alex Jarrell, found a way to put four forward gears in a three speed case.

 

Thanks John. That explains a little more and the Alex Jarrell thing is great. Tell me the Stocker guys weren't deep thinkers, huh??

 

i have the last three speed alex built and ran in his last car, it only has three forward gears, now it does have a later housing.

 

It's not particularly unique to NHRA rules but the key to understanding how practices evolved lies not in the wording of the rules but in the practical interpretation of that wording. A seemingly innocuous statement such as "...must be of the same year, make and model as the car..." for example, can lead to all sorts of permutations. In this case, as we can now easily see in looking back, the interpretation included identifying sedan deliveries as both a car and a truck and allowing truck equipment to be used in a vehicle that appeared and functioned more like a car than a truck. Stock racers phrased this anomaly in the rules interpretation as, "What are they buying," which translated to "What can I get away with?" The interpretations were often made, and sometimes changed, on the spot, without warning. What "they bought" today, might not be accepted next week although, in that era, Farmer Dismuke made all or most of the decisions, both good and bad, and consistency was easier to achieve and maintain.

All the foregoing having been said, it has always been my opinion that Farmer was a very fair individual, a captain who ran his ship with a linear view of rules and the rules-making process. When it became obvious to him that Stock Eliminator had gotten "out of hand," along came 1969 and major revisions were instituted through changes in rules as well as interpretations of those rules. At the end of the 1971 season, the whole concept was considered to be so flawed that the Eliminator itself was eliminated...but then, that's another story for another day...

c

 

One of the delivery guys even petitioned NHRA to accept a lower horsepower rating saying that the trucks were rated less than the engines in cars. Only difference was that a truck had a manual choke instead of an automatic choke. Some of the rulings showed just how gullible some of the tech was. Too bad it all ended before I got my 60 sedan delivery done. The 60 283 two barrel was rated at 170 horsepower and was the same basic engine that was rated at 185 horsepower in 57-59. Only difference was the 60-62 cam was smaller, but..... NHRA allowed superseded camshafts and the 60 camshaft was superseded to the 63 cam which had the same as the 185 or 195 rated 283. It would have been a killer combo if only I had gotten it done a year earlier. Stuff happens they say.....

 

You are exactly right. In addition, your commentary places a finger on another of the anomalies that really defines Stock Eliminator, that of evolving horsepower ratings. An old legend concludes, "for the want of a nail, a kingdom was lost." In this instance, the mark of a pen can wipe out your investment of time and money or turn your ratty old pumpkin into a golden chariot. This has traditionally been an evolutionary process but, occasionally, it can shift gears and become a flesh-eating bacteria that trumps hard work and careful planning by turning a non-competitive combination into an overnight class winner at the expense of an advantage gained through work and investment.

c

 

It would be very cool for a group of Jr. Stockers to run at next years Byron Meltdown Drags.

 

Chuck, speaking for myself and I am sure other guys, that " other story for another day" would be great to read. I know your still out there racing competitively on a regular basis as we have a mutual friend and my questions last week which you answered ( thank you) regarding a Tri five running today competitively and the pros and cons of that. So if you can, please continue on........I guarantee I'm not the only one logging this mentally..
Thank you

 

I'd like to see that as well. Some of the best racing I remember was some of the Jr Stockers. The Meltdown can only get better, which gives us something to look forward to next year.-Jim

 

I took my '63 Studebaker Super Lark to the Meltdown this year and had a ball. Atmosphear was like being back in the '60's.

Ted

 

Welcome Ted. You're one of the guys that have been racing longer than most anyone on here. Hoping to see you in September.

 

Ted, I believe we spoke in the staging lanes on Sunday. I had the candy red 62 Vette. It was a great time and welcome to the HAMB.-Jim

 

The announcer at the Meltdown noted that the driver of one the Studebakers was 78. That must of have been you? I watched you on two passes but I didn't connect the dots to realize that it was you.

I'm old enough to remember your accomplishments in the early years. Welcome; it's nice to see you on the H.A.M.B..

 

Ted, I know your car and its reputation!! That is one bad car. I have read up on it and the Super Larks, it great that you take it out and run it. "The atmosphere was like being back in the 60's " pretty much sums it up!!! Thanks for posting ....

 

Finally got a new password, so I can participate now. Have really enjoyed the site for the last few years. I had a 57 Chev 4 door HT in O/S named the Carrot Cart. I was just a kid then trying to compete with the more experienced guys, but I held my own and it was incredible experience. I live in Kansas right now, but the 57 is stored in another house in Alabama. Hope to restore it one day. I will try to upload current photos when I figure out how. I am hoping someone might have some photos of the car back in the day. Could not afford to buy them then.

 

Ted, I remember my brother Steve Dillman trying to chase you and Frantic Fred at Muncie Dragway on many a Saturday night. We always dreaded running you guys. Always good to read about you in the Muscle Car and Pure Stock classes. Keep flogging the Lark!

 

The McMasters and Gunning was one of the reasons I built my 4 door HT. For a kid from Alabama you guys were top of the line. I also owe you a thank you for not coming to Dallas in 1970 so I could win class. Hopefully I can come to some of the events and meet some of my Land of NED "hero's".

Seeing the photos of Kyle Marshall's car, I was wondering what happened to him. Great guy, I originally met him at Dallas in 1970. I remember seeing the car, still intact when I used his garage to change engines in Pete Sciro's S/S car at the 1979 Nationals.

Now that I am back on line, have a lot of questions for some of you, but I will save that for another day.

 

I don't recall there being many Hydro Delivery's on Tennessee strips. Go north a state or two (Kentucky or Ohio), and you would likely have your butt handed to you by one in Stock Eliminator.

 

I stopped by Kyle's on the way to York. He and his wife are doing fine.
I'll be at MoKan for the HAMB drags in a couple of weeks.
If you get a chance come over.

 

I checked the MoKan website and did not see anything about the HAMB drags. Can you direct me to any info. This is only about 2 hours east of me so I would like to try to make it.

 

Although I was just a kid in 69, I was already a drag race fan, and regulairly was able to talk my parents into driving me out to Mission Raceway to spectate. One of our local hotshot Ir. Stock racers was Mike Boyer, and watching his I/SA(?) "Gold Rush" 57 Chevy drive past my house with all the stickers and "NHRA National Record Holder" lettering was something i`ll never forget. Although I have been drag racing since only 1974, and mostly in brackeets, I have been racing a Mustang in modern Stock Eliminatorfor the past 10 years. And in that 10 years, the amount of stuff allowed in Stock Eliminator is stunning, and in my opinion, detrimental. I wish we had a Farmer Dismuke disciple who had the final word on what was and was not allowed in Stock. No B.S., no "clairifacation from Gledora", no gray areas, and certainly none of this allowed in some divisions, not in others crap. And absolutely no purpose built, no VIN,factory new race cars like the current CobraJet Mustangs, DragPak Challanger, and COPO Camaros, that are nothing even close to what the manufacturers actually offer to the general public. And the "real" cars that the Big 3 do sell are not even in the NHRA Cassifacation Guide!!! These soft HP rated, on paper "crate motor" phantom cars are killing Stock for many of the older guys who have been thrashing away on their 45+ year old combination for deacdes, and some rich kid shows up with an untouched new non production based car, and blows his doors off. I think it would be great for Stock to take a BIIIIG step back, and start all over again, like they did in 72.More like a Pure Stock/Jr Stock entry level class, move current Stock Eliminator up into Super Stock (lots of Stockers regularily compete in S/S now anyways), and put all the "hood scoop" pound per cube classed cars into Competition Eliminator. JMO.

 

Yeah Carl leaves that weekend blank as he figures this place does all the advertising needed.
I take it you found the information from the PM I got from you but for anybody else interested you can find information here.
http://www.hambdrags.com/

 

Yes, been at it almost 60 years. Someone asked me at the FAST/Factory Stock race in Martin, Michigan, last June if I was living my second childhood. I told them no, I am still in my first. Looking forward to the PSMCDR at Stanton in September. I have a LOT of trouble with names (age maybe) so please re-introduce yourselves.

Ted