A local guy has a wooden boat down at the marina that has a bad hull but also has 2 409 engines with low hours and are in good running condition. He wants to sell the engines but has no idea of what to ask for them. These are 1964 vintage engines but I don't have any casting numbers on them yet. Here's the question for the Chevy W-engine guys...how much is a good running 1964 409 motor worth?
Depends on if there "BIG HORSE" engines or not.. 62-64 DUAL QUAD (two carberators, AFB's) 425 H.P. in running condition.. $5000 to $8000. But it all in the numbers... Reserch it. Its worth it, or go to The local BIG book store and get a book on Chevy engine numbers.. I know of three "BIG HORSE" 409's that have sold in the last year and a half that were COMPLETELY refreshed and RESTORED for $7500 to $8500. as a side note to this.. most had little 2 barrel carbs on them, and Just cause it has "409" valve covers.. doesn't mean its a 409. could be a 348. And 409's came in a lot of different things... A lot of Dump tricks even had them, but they were NOT the Big horse dual quad engines... in the 348 case, a greasy, running 348 is only worth about $500 to $1000... They look the same, except for a few small things.. So... RUN THE NUMBERS!! Good luck. Joshua Shaw
I've seen a set of MARINE valve covers, and they were pretty cool. One could be reverse rotation--that was pretty common back then, not just 409s, but every twin boat engine. Oil pans might be different...again, some makes used aluminum pans to keep them from rotting out due to salt water. Same with the distributor...I seem to remember a guy saying he had a brass distributor that was from a W-motor. They were somehow different than the passenger car distributors. The heads are the big thing--get the casting numbers off them. Blocks are the second thing to check; truck blocks aren't worth as much as passenger car blocks. And aluminum single-4 intake isn't worth a ton, but they're not throw-aways either. Timing covers, cranks, balancers, water pumps...they're all worth getting too. Price? I have zero idea. Find out what heads and block they are, then check ebay for the inflated market value. Keep in mind, too, that prices on a lot of things seem to be coming down lately. When you find out ANY info on these, please post it all--I'd love to have it for my folder! -Brad
The dipstick comes up on different sides of the pan. 348 is drivers side and 409 is on the passenger side, 409s also had a larger diameter harmonic balancer
Thats the main one.. the only other thing I can ad (that doesn't pertain to this discusion) is the cranks are different, they wont interchange... while a lot of other stuff will. Which probably goes back to diff harmonic balancers. If you really need to know the little differences, I have a 63' 425 H.P. 409... and a greasy 348 at my shop side by side, and a ton of litterature.. Let me know. The Water pumps are valuble.. Another thing to grab is stock exaust manifolds$$$ But, being a boat.. They might be water type.. Joshua Shaw.
One motor will probaly spin in reverse...my buddy just posted a thread about it...hes got a 360 chrysler motor that spins in reverse...search though it but the mian difference isnt the crank...its the cam i guess..im not sure all that was said but look it up...ill send you a link if i find it...but the normal one could be worth big money...even if you dont want to sell it yet people are always lookin for a 409 chevy motor...
i always thought marine "reversed" mills just needed a different cam, distributor and sometimes oil pump to make em standard rotation? info?
I had a 409 in a 61 Impala years ago, dual quad 425 HP...wish I still had it. When the bottom end blew I tried mounting the heads on a 348 shortblock; as I recall the water passages did not line up correctly. I am going to swing by tomorrow afternoon and take a look at these engines...they're still in the boat and running. As was noted by a view in this thread, one engine does rotate opposite of the other. I'll post the casting numbers when I get them. I don't have an immediate need for a 409 (or two!) but it's hard to pass up a deal on old iron.
Charlie here's a 61 SS 425 horse 409. 61 was the first Chev SS sold and they only built 615+ the 409 didn't come out till Feb 1961. and were rated 409HP I think the 425's came out in 63
Thanks. I bought mine in 1969 from a guy who raced it at Carlsbad here in SoCal. I was going by what he had told me when I bought the car from him, he may have put a later engine in it or he may have been blowin' smoke. All I know is that as a 18 year old sailor that was far too much car for me to be makin' speed runs between Tijuana and the base!
is it true the cranks are different?, my dad picked up two 409's out of a boat ("814" block). I tore the motor completely down. I couldn't imagine the crank being different, i always thought it was just the cam. That might give me a reason to go with a stroker crank
Jeez all this time I thought 348 and 409 were developed as truck motors then put in the cars. Probably mistaken though as I am not a chevy guy.
409 engines are going for 2500.00 truck. The cars are more. Boats are probably car blocks. The differance between truck and car block is the compression reliefs. For the best info there is out there go to www.348-409.com thats a good find you got there. John
Some of the marine reverse rotation engines had a serrated oil slinger cut into the rear main seal surface of the cranks. If they are used in a normal rotation engine they have a oil leakage problem as they try to screw the oil out of the motor instead of toward the inside like they were designed to do. If the seal surface in the crank is smooth the crank is the same and doesn't know the difference which way it is being rotated. Hope this helps, Gary....
I worked in a boat yard for 5 years . longisland vic is right !! If they are not freshwater cooled don't even THINK about it !!
Yes this is true.. They do not interchange.. IF ANYONE HAS THERE "STREET RODDER" MAGS IN ORDER.. SEPT. 01' HAS A DETAILED THREE OR FOUR PAGE ARTICLE ON THE DIFFERENCES AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM... Please post it. As for making it a stroker engine.. I'll really open a can of worms and mention an old racers secret.. Certain, if not all, 454 steel cranks can be put into 409's and it makes them strokers. My dad know more about this. If no one explains i'll call him up and get the down low.. Joshua SHaw
Marine reversed engines may also have had the pistons reversed in the banks to correct the pin offset. The rods are the same nominal size as Mark (BBC) engines at 2.20", but the Mark mains are too big at 2.75" and must be turned to 2.50" (or the saddles and caps bored - not sure if this is safe) for the W. The 409 stroke is only 3.50", so even a 396 crank (3.76") is a stroker.
okay the cranks will be different in a reverse rotation motor!!!! ask me how i know this............ we built a small motor ford for my buddies 56 century wood boat. it was a reverse rotation motor that the crank was bad. well i had 3 or 4 cranks in my shop so i gave one to him and put the motor together. got it in the boat hooked up some water hoses to it so it wouldnt melt on us and fired it up. it puked enough oil out of the front crank seal to look like the Exxon Valdez. come to find out the crank has the chamfers cut on the snoot a certain way for the rotation to keep the oil in the motor. so needless to say we had to find a marine crank after that.
Boring the caps takes a lot of meat out of a 2-bolt cap. BUT, when guys throw cranks away that have the mains cut .020, do you really want to cut .250 off and stick it in an expensive 409 block? ProGram Engineering makes billet 4-bolt caps. Money very well spent. -Brad
Hmmmm... As for boat engines, I heard that many years ago some were counterrotating. I guess it all depends on the type of transmission used in those years. Some were using torque converters.... hence my doubts about counterrotation in those ... you cannot run hydraulics backwards in torque converters. As for now, cost would be the paramount consideration. Modifying engines to counterrotate would be cost prohibitive compared to add some gearing in the transmission. Also the issue about the hydraulics is still there. A friend of mine has an older Cruiser (1964) that has 2 X 327 chevys with counterrotating props and I can assure you that both engines are turning the same. Another friend has 2 X 350 Mercruiser (chevys) and the props turn the same way even though the boat is much younger (2000). The starter motor would give out the rotation of the engine. In that case you must compare the tags on them. They would bear that kind of information. Another way to check it is in the case of wet exhaust: the water pump will have an arrow on the front of the casting stating the waterflow direction. Compare both and you'll see if they differ. Hope this helps!
Looking for a 409 motor for my 1964 impala ss. Looking for reasonable price if it needs work to so be it hit me if you got what i need.
Looking for a 409 motor for my 1964 impala ss. Looking for reasonable price if it needs work to so be it hit me if you got what i need.
You do realize this thread was posted in 2008, right? Might want to post a "wanted" ad in the classifieds after reading that forum's rules. Who knows? You might get lucky.
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