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Sheet metal wood buck thread.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by iwanaflattie, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,208

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    I've got Ron's ( and R Fournier) video on making bucks and hammerforms. He explains that he sometimes makes bucks with solid or reinforced sections, so he can hammer on the form, either directly shaping on it, or just forming the flanges necessary for it. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes sense in some applications.
     
    rytang likes this.
  2. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,376

    bobw
    Member

    RockHillWill,

    Two things:

    You should start a build thread on your speedster project. Too cool to not share the whole build.

    It would be wonderful if a high school age youngster or two could assist you and absorb some of your knowledge.
     
  3. RockHillWill
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Posts: 34

    RockHillWill
    Member

    Thanks, 'Flattie' and Bob. I have had a young man that has been working summers for me and holidays for the last four years, two in high school and two in college. He was / is an excellant fabricator and a nice young man to boot.

    I will consider the seperate thread, but I do this metal shaping in spare time, and am not always quick to add new material.
     
  4. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939


    I think if you saw how Ron works it would make more sense. I have that video where he builds the body buck for the 27. I used his method for the bucks I made for the 4 door skins for the 32 Tub I am doing. Also when he did his duplicate a fender video, it ties in.

    By having a solid buck to line the metal up to, he has the option to use the buck as a hammer mold if need be. He did this on the fender video. He makes a section out of hardwood or poplar so he can roll an edge where he needs to.The other reason he makes this way as he gets the right shape, and the rear openings in the mdf lets him see if the metal is touching on the right stations without having the buck move. He never makes a part out of one whole piece of sheet steel. The fenders were made of multi parts, as to get the shapes right, then he tigs them together.

    When I wheeled my rear door skins, it took some work to trust my stations on my buck that they were correct in shape and I had to work the metal to conform to them, not the other way around. In making the door skins, I may have to consider making the roll above the beltline seperate and tig welding them together. I can get a good roll with the wheel to match the door skin on the real door, but by doing so, you loose some of the flatness for the bottom of the door. I will wait until I get my dies to roll the beltline into the skin before I make that decision. If I learned one thing from Ron and Lazze, you cant force a large metal sheet to make all the shapes you want. If its complex you may have to consider multi parts.

    The Aussie inner doors are made of 3 parts, tacked to a wooden frame. I made bucks to be able to make those three parts so I can tig them together. The A pillar part of the front door is an easy hammer, but the latch side is more tricky. I was able to make all but the last bend that would be where the door skin attaches, so I will make a seperate strip for that.
     
  5. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    I made the same statment on a thread back when that artical came out and got jumped all over. Nice work but seemed overkill and a lot of work to build one body on. I use hammerforms and an occasional buck all the time to make certain pieces but didn't need to build a complete buck to build a Vicky body.
    I did just read the 2nd part and can see where the solid turtle deck side panels would be easier to form over the solid buck like he did but I'm still not sure it would be worth the work making them.
     
  6. Is Covell selling T body parts now?
     
  7. bill s preston esq
    Joined: Feb 1, 2011
    Posts: 314

    bill s preston esq
    Member

    Loving this thread. Missed it the first time around.
     
  8. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939


    Nope, just the one video where he makes a body buck from a real one. In the video he said that he planned on building himself a 27 T Roadster, and this was the first step. My guess is he is working on another video showing you how to make the body.
     
  9. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,780

    fleet-master
    Member

    any idea how many sections he made the quarters out of?
     
  10. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Here are the pictures of my door skin bucks. The idea is to layout the blue tape to represent your stations. You make a template of each of those location on the outer door skin, and transfer them to MDF, or in the case of anywhere you may hammer, Poplar. I sanded those stations to the exact shapes of the top template. If I have time this weekend I will get pictures of my hammer molds for the inner door sections.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,780

    fleet-master
    Member

    how many peices are you using making the door frame Ken?
     
  12. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Since the original Aussie tub used a wooden door frame with metal tacked to it, I kept with that idea. Each original door had three peices that were tacked to the inner door wood. So to keep it simple I am doing the same. The difference will be I plan on Tig welding the 3 pcs together, and I am adding a innder door panel which will get tig welded to the 3 inner door pcs. I will post some pictures of where I am now this weekend along with what my hammer molds looked like. I am stalled waiting on a new die for my bead roller for the beltline from Irvan Smith.
     
  13. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Based on the video he was going to make the turtle deck out of 3 pcs not counting the deck lid. He was making the rear parts of the mold to hammer the metal around the edges to mimmic the original. Same with the under deck lid panel.
     
  14. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Here are a few pictures of my hammer molds. The way I made them was to first take some posterboard and duplicate the shape of the hinge side of the front door for example. This is the flat part. I glued up some poplar to make a front half and a back half. I traced the posterboard on the poplar before I glued them. Once I glued them I used a band saw to cut off the excess, then I used a vice and a belt sander to get the contour on the sides right. To get the center cut right, I only glued the halves together to ensure it would stick where I needed it to, where it rolls back. Once they were cut I sanded the centers where the metal would sit. I made a pattern out of paper for the metal, using the original pattern made for the wood, and added 1/4 inch. Trimming the metal to size. I tried to figure out how much for the taper at the top. I then clamped the metal in the block and made sure I hammered the right directions.
     

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  15. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    The latch side of the door was more complex. I thought I may just get a shop press and make two molds, but wasnt sure if I would get the full bend. So I took the same idea as the hinge side. I made one template to fit the inside of the door to the first kick out and made two hammer molds to make that part. I could hammer one way for the inside lip, then on the other side of the mold hammer the opposite direction to get the ledge part of the latch side. I then have a third part that is then clamped underneath so I can hammer down to the the last leg of the hinge side shape. I will tig weld a 1/4 inch strip of sheet metal to get the lip for the door skin. I found out trying to hammer that much the metal would not obey.
     

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  16. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    The rear doors were a similar idea, accept the hammer mold for the rear door hinge side was larger and had a curve made into it. I used the same technique to make that part, and the latch side is the same as the front doors so all I had to do was make sure I used the correct molds for the door I was working on. I did make seperate molds for both front and rear doors hinge sides, as especially on the rear doors the curve is different as is on the hinge side of the front doors.
     

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  17. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Here is another picture of the inner door part I made to steel out the inside
     

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  18. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    The original doors were made on wooden frames, so I made one for each door for two reasons. I will make one body with the traditional wood in them, the second was I knew I had a good jig to make the inner doors right for a welded steel version. I planned on making at least one duplicate before I built the real Tub, then I would have a keep for a pattern body or build later down the road. If the doors do not come out right I will take some time to think over the process. The doors are more than 1/3 of the side of the car, so if they look at least like the originals, I will continue on. I was planning a whole build log on this on the Hamb, but since the topic of hammer molds came up, I wanted to share what I did.
     

  19. Beautiful work. I think that build thread is in order, I know there would be quite a few of us watchin :) thanks in advance :D
     
  20. thank yuo helps me make a buck
     
  21. Just Jones
    Joined: Jan 11, 2005
    Posts: 928

    Just Jones
    Member

    This is one of the more inspirational threads I've seen lately. Im amazed with what complex panels can be created using a hammer form.

    I have a rather daunting '27 T roadster project ahead that I am going to have to fabricate patch panels for, and as this is a first attempt for me, I'm soaking this all in, learning all I can before I begin. Those compound curves and flanges present challenges, and I dont own a stretcher shrinker or an English wheel.

    Thanks to those who have contributed, and please keep it coming!
     

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  22. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,229

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX

    Very cool thread. So many things I have got to try later on...
     
  23. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,297

    metalman
    Member

    The atical said he made each 1/4 out of 3 sections. He formed the top down about 1/2 way of the curve (where vertical changes to horozonal), the main side from there down with a flange for the wheel tube and then the wheel tube. I can definatally see where that solid buck would help on that top roll, lots of transformation in curves there for an early car!
     
  24. Im looking at doing a speedster body for 28 Hudson, so RockHillWills posts were close to where im going. Thanks RHW. Im also investagating using fabric, but would prefer to use steel, or alloy. My advantage, is that my good friend, 57mad on here, is a panelbeater who has all the rollers and folders needed for the steel work, and im good at woodwork.
     
  25. 53chevtrev
    Joined: Jul 26, 2011
    Posts: 403

    53chevtrev
    Member
    from Langley BC

    Here is one of the many forms I made to build my molded splash pan.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Dave Mc and dos zetas like this.
  26. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,780

    fleet-master
    Member

    ^^^steel is real Jeff!! :D:p
     
  27. Aint that the truth. Lol. Im going to sell my Hudson cowl to pay for materals. I sure hope RockHillWill gets time to do a build thread.
     
  28. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,454

    oj
    Member

  29. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939

    Not only when Ron made the video on making the body buck which is good, I would say buy the fender making video. What he shows is you cannot always shape one piece of metal to be the whole thing. Chances are you would use two seperate pieces to make that T quarter, or make a repair patch panel.

    On the fender video he left 3/4 of an inch extra in the wheel opening. I think he made the fender out of at least 4 parts. Once they were all the right shape he tig's them together to make the whole fender. Then he clamed the fender back to the buck, but added a hardwood radius for the fender opening. Once it was clamped down, he hammered the edge over to get a finished opening.

    I was always told to get the shape first, then add the swag, be it a body belt line, or in the case of your picure the fender reveal. That can be added with a bead roller.


    I think the important thing I have learned is you cannot make one giant part work out of one piece, and you can be creative in forming the metal. Not every way is wrong and not every way is right. Its one of the few things left you can experiment on. When I was making my latch side parts for the door, I did not pay attention and made two that had parallel roll overs. I found I can reuse those on the B pillar center of the phaeton.

    Mark the buck with arrows if need be to remind you which way to go.
     
  30. ken1939
    Joined: Jul 5, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    ken1939


    Thats the attention to detail you have to consider. Remember, coach builders did this back in the early days. Metals may have changed but basic principles of shaping have not.
     

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