bloody nanny state!!! (victoria)

just spent the whole arvo ringing engineers about my chev that i'm building and all the guys that i spoke to told me that i couldn't use drum brakes if the motor i want to use has more than a 20% power increase over the original engine for the car. I want to use a flathead six out of a '53 desoto (not exactly a power house) and drum brakes were good enough to pull up a big heavy car with this motor why not my little roadster pickup? is anybody else out there having similar issues or more to the point is there a way around all the BS. i see plenty of cars around with drum brakes so theres gotta be something i can do.

 

I live in Missouri, we still get away with pretty much anything but I feel your pain for sure!

 

The answer is simple - find another engineer.

Most fall into the "theorists" brand of engineers.

Very few fall into the "practical experience" type.

You are also dealing with people who have never laid a weld, used hand tools, never raced and never built a car.

See what I mean ?

 

yeah mate i kept ringing numbers 'till i got too pissed off to talk. but there's still more on the list so i guess it's gonna be the same story for me tomorrow.

you got any reccomendations?

 

surely if you say, you are using the matching brake system from the car the motor came from ,the engineer would be happy .Remember never give these people too much info as most of them get confused.answer the questions they ask ONLY . what a pity there is not more rodders that are engineers so some comon sense could apply as experience is some times a better form of practicality than opinions ,sorry for the rant

 

Shit Frank, I did`nt know you were a Engineer !

 

Try Kevin Williams-he is out Diamond creek way.
I saw a Rav 4 with a gen3 at his place once-he said it would pass!!!!
Always found him to be fair.

 

no need for apologys mate, i've been yelling and throwing shit all arvo. BTW its not the original brakes off the desoto but they are bigger and self energising drums so i would have thought they'd be ok.

thanks mate i'll ring him tomorrow. just one question... why would you put a V8 in a rav??

 

I feel your frustrations on this kind of thing, near impossible to change their thinking. They govern our cars for the road where a larger motor will get you to the speed limit faster but thats the point where all motor car combos become the same,now its upto the brakes. I bet these guys drive station wagons or ride bikes. Good luck, JW

 

I guess I'm just a dumb engineer because I don't really get the direct connection between increased horsepower and brakes unless the thinking is that the increase in HP will allow the car to have a higher top end speed ( or that the brakes need to hold the car while under full power ). Brake design is determined by vehicle weight, vehicle velocity, required stopping distance and the coefficient or friction between brake component materials.

 

What he said, try for one that will listen to establishing reason ie, big brakes from big cars! If you can get there ear thru reason it will open other avenues in question! unfortunatly its a cash cow for engineers these days and there snouts are well and truelly in the trough! Wayne

 

Hate the pricks...

But you already knew that matey...

 

Is this a geographic thing? Do y'all need engineering approval to build a hot rod? I'm sincerely confused.

 

Highlander - Yeah we need inspectors to sign off on stages along the build on a hot rod here in Australia. Good thing too - means I'm safe and the family in the car ahead of me is too when I step on the brakes and my car stops. Otherwise any dickhead can build a shitheap and put it on the road. Rights bring responsibilities mate - my right to build my hot rod doesnt mean I have the right to put it on a public road if its not safe.

Here endeth the sermon.

 

yeah mate all nearly all modifications to chassis/suspension/brakes need to be signed off by an engineer before it can be registered.

 

Ok, I get it. Thanks. Now I also see the problem. You need some "geezers" in the engineering choices. Old guys who've been there, done that, know what works without opening a book.

 

yeah the "geezers" are in short supply it seems. i will admit some of the r**rods i see picures of from over in the states make me glad we have some degree of regulation but sometimes regulation gets taken too far.

 

So if drum brakes, as we are led to believe,' are no good for hot rods, what used to stop the 2 &1\2 ton Chevs in the 60's?

 

I have the distinct impression we are in 2012 NOT the 60's. What was OK then isn't OK today. Common sense would dictate that disc brakes are much more efficient than drum brakes, you also know in what direction you are going to stop. I think you would possibly be striving to find an auto manufacturer these days still with drum brakes on their vehicles.

I use Kevin Williams and find he is a fair engineer, (most of the time)

I personally think safe comes before style.

Ray

 

Once the tires are locked up, they are locked up, doesn't matter if it's drums or discs.....

 

Faaark!!!!!!! Me

 

Funny, I've had several disc brake vehicles that wouldn't stop for shit! Ford half tons, a '72 Camino, '69 GMC pickup, they wouldn't lock the wheels with both feet bending the pedal. My '69 GTX had great drum brakes. Never had a drum setup that wasn't up to the task.
Drove that Camino 540K miles, the only way to stop quick from 30 MPH or so was to shift to R and punch the gas! The trans took that abuse for 300K, too.

 

I feel your pain mate, i had the chance to talk to an engineer one day and asked if it would be ok to run a Y Block in a shoebox ford. Got told the exact same thing. When i proceeded to say that adding the y block wouldn't necessarily be adding extra weight to the vehicle and therefore increasing the braking power is probably not going to be needed. Jeez didn't i get the third degree! Not to mention all the additional mods to get discs mounted up to the stock stub axles. I thought that would be more of an issue.

 

ok ill admit disc brakes are good stoppers. but so are drum.i have drum brakes on all our old cars and with proper maintance and up keep they are fine.they worked for decades.i trust them because im the one who sets them up. my wife drives the cars and my grandkids ride in them. if they werent safe they wouldnt be in them!now back to the subject.we have inspecters here in the states that dont even know what is on the old cars. they only know what they learned in a book. a up to date book at that.if they are going to control or inspect your hotrods they should at least have a hotrodder doing it. someone who has been there and done that...

 

Well, if people don't stop building those crappy r**rods then we will have the engineering nazis out over here overseering everything we do also. That is the problem with government and regulations, somebody ALWAYS takes it too far eventually and it gets to be ridiculous after a while.

Thank God we still have some freedom left though.

 

Hahaha eaaasy mate

Ive dealt with quite a few of them, and they are total dickheads.

They'd need a seeing eye dog to find their own ass hahaha.

NFI

 

Don't big rigs run drums along with straight axles? Just because its old tech doesn't mean its bad tech.

 

Does he have to sign off on something? Maybe you aren't paying him enough.

 

Coming soon to a nation near you.....I fear.

 

I have heard good things about Kevin and have even spoken to him and ran some opotions past him on the phone. He seemed fair enough. But in saying that I just had Bernie from Enkelman and associates out last week for a first ispection. He was very easy to talk to, told me a few things extra he wanted then gave me the nod to keep building. You have to remember IF any thing happens in a engineered car the engineers are the first people to apear in court!