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Features 1940's period correct hot rods

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by erlomd, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,628

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    Cactus has all types of shit going on he's not sharing. I guess we're not good enough. :D:D

    I'd like to be building a T roadster....however I don't have one. I did scoop up a 28-29 Cowl top/ Gas Tank this weekend so now I just need to find the rest haha!!
     
  2. My projects are stacked like cord wood, ha! I'm not worthy of this thread yet, but I'm working on it...


    Sent from my Droid using TJJ sucka!
     

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  3. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,628

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    Me Neither. Hoping to have my '33 ready for 2014 Speedweek....that is if I can get these bill under control. I've got almost everything with the exception of an engine. I've been approached about trading my Columbia for a Culver City so if that goes through I'll need that built.

    I think this fall I might get started on the frame and have a friend help me out on the body. Needs another couple inches taken out especially after riding in Thunderbirdesq's coupe this past weekend.
     
  4. Sutton Speed
    Joined: Jul 15, 2006
    Posts: 1,140

    Sutton Speed
    Member

    Dig this thing! Any more pictures or details?
     
  5. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    i'm not worthy of this thread yet either. but the T roadster I'm not building might soon make me worthy. ;)
     
  6. Haha me too, I mean me neither? Wait, what? :):confused::cool::rolleyes::D;)
     
  7. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    777
    Member
    from Pasadena

    Actually depends on what era of the Pre-War lakes racing your refering to.
    Since it was a realitively new form of racing it started out as a free for all, run whatcha brung deal, with the exception of the Bell and Purdy races, then as more entries started showing up the cars were grouped by trap speed.

    Mid 30's groupings, before the begining of The Association, would have looked like this:

    Class A was 80-90 mph
    Class B was 90-100mph
    Class C was 100-120
    Class D was +125 mph ( When Class D was added, A was dropped. This was in the very late 30's or possibly 1940).

    But the A-D generally did not get written onto the car. The car would have been assigned a semi- sequential number based on the speed grouping, pre-registration or sequential event registration ie. first come first served type of numbering.

    Caveat
    Clubs had groups of registration numbers set aside for them based on their member count. For instances The Idlers Car Club usually had #'s 90- 115 reserved for them. This also depended on the Association that was running the meet. ie. SCTA and Western Timing had different Club reservations for numbers and REVS had no club affiliations.

    That is why there are often big gaps in the sequential numbering in a meets program.

    Around the end of the '39 lakes season, Championship Numbers were assigned to class winners for the upcoming season. Numbers 1-10 were set aside for the Roadster, Modified and Streamliner Class top 10.

    Jimmy is correct about the "Secombe" rule put in place in 1941 after Edelbrock Sr. got his ass handed too him by Clint Secombe with his Sweet 16, Cadillac powered AV16 roadster. See the pics below of the 4 roadster run off and the Secombe roadster. pics are from the Leslie Long collection Edelbrock, a Roadrunners members, lobbied the SCTA to create a rule that reinstated his roadster's slower trap speed and created a new Class for Secombee's roadster to run in. I could do more on the rule if your interested and fill in the development of the classes from 1920- 1942 if you give me the specific time line your looking at.

    Revenge
    Secombe, left the SCTA meeting P/O'd and put his roadster up for sale. I don't believe he ever ran another SCTA meet. Belond struck a deal with Secombe for the modified Columbia two speed from his AV8 roaster and shortly thereafter Belond ran an almost identical speed to Secombe 125.854 mph at a REVS meet resetting the REVS Timing Roadster record.


    Special tid bit teaser: Cars competing in dry lakes competition before the War were not allowed to have a working tach or speedo in lakes competition. If you had a speedo it would be white washed over before your run. This was done to keep racers from "sanding bagging" into slower classes for better seating in the run off.

    Sorry I did this off the top of my head and I don't have the actual notes in front of me or I could be very precise. I you give me the year and Association your looking at I can give you something really close for your project. I could narrow it to a Club if your doing that too.
    Hope this gives you a little insight into what on the surface seems simple enough but in reality is a calculated and complex numbering system for the Pre-War dry lakes race cars.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  8. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    777- super cool history. thanks!

    I am particularly interested in the rules between 1936-41, and would appreciate anything you can give me. I'd also be very interested in knowing where to acquire literature on the subject. If there are books out there or whatever, I am happy to own them and do my own research. SO, if you can clue me in to that too, I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks again,

    Mark
     
  9. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    777
    Member
    from Pasadena

    Mark,
    First off your welcome and welcome to Pre-War hot rodding.

    The years '36- '41 are the most complex, because those years are the beginnings of The Association and they were competing with Western Timing and to a small degree REVS Timing and later Russetta Timing in the '41 and '42 seasons. Nothing seemed to remain constant in those early years as rules were being created and classes aligned from meet to meet.

    Info is very difficult to get your hands on as it has been for me and the few other historians really researching this era. It's lots of reading in obsecure magazines, like Harpers bazzare, Mechanix and old newsprint on microfiche at libaries.
    The small group of us that do this stuff are mostly guys that own a Pre-War lakes car and need correct info for restorations. So if you get into this be preparrd for lots of cross checking of your data and lots of critiquing of your findings.

    First thing is buy The Rodders Journals' re-prints of Throttle. If you read the entire book carefully you will get a pretty good idea of what was going on, in regards to the climate of lakes racing in 1941.

    Second book wouold be Muroc. Not entirely accurate but still invaluable.

    Third, the Don Montgomery books that cover the Pre-War years, I think there are two.

    Fourth, Albert Drake's Flat Out, again lots of mistakes but a must have.

    Those should get you going but what you will really need to do is read all the data, and as your going through it you will find the items that don't line up and be able to do some cross checking and some verifying of data by the different sources.
    As you get this deep into it and are reading their notes from the pioneers you will actually start thinking in the hot rod pioneers terms and a lot of things will open up to you. For instance you will realize there is a War going on in Europe and the young men are wondering if they will be called up to serve. We were also in the midst of the Great Depression and there was pretty much a two class economy in play then. These elements and of course a multitude of others will help you get and idea of what the early hot rodders were dealing with.

    If you get that far, I'm certain you will have found some interesting sources for data and we can go further with notes and minutes from Club meetings that have been passed onto me.

    In the meantime if your looking for a competition number for your project I still need a specific year and Association and meet location.
     
    RyanPartridge likes this.
  10. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,673

    296ardun
    Member

    been reading this, great information, these are all high quality sources --bound version of "Throttle" is a must-have...(I also find good stuff in the gallery of the American Hot Rod Foundation).

    Grew up in Pasadena, where are you there?
     
  11. Thanks!
     
  12. OoltewahSpeedShop
    Joined: Oct 18, 2007
    Posts: 3,103

    OoltewahSpeedShop
    Member

    This is the closest thing i have to a '40's era Hot Rod. Second picture is the direction I'm heading....

    Absolutely GREAT thread....!
     

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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  13. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,628

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    777 Thanks so much for including that all to the thread!!!! The tid bit about the tach in prewar is awesome!!!!
     
  14. Michael, thank you for the more in depth info. A lot more definitive than my answer.
     
  15. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    777
    Member
    from Pasadena

    Where'd you grow up?
    I'm near the Rose Bowl in the upper section of the Glen.

    Jimmy, I'm sure you understand the obsession.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  16. I do indeed. I am a little envious of your access to Historic material. But I'm sure glad you share the info and not keep it hidden away.

    In regards to the white washing the Tach/Speedo's this was only done on roadsters? Reason I ask Bob Rufi in 1940 running his streamliner used his tach to tell how fast he was going.
     
  17. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    oh man, some fantastic info. i'll start searching for the books. seems the Throttle reprint is expensive and tough to get already. I knew I should've jumped on it when it first came out.

    I don't have a car that needs a specific number or anything. I am building a 'recreation' to emulate the era. I'll put my own number on it, but wanted to make sure I put the correct letter suffix on it so that it was more authentic.

    When I get further along in my own research, I'll touch base again to get some sophomore level lessons...

    thank you again. great stuff.
     
  18. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    777
    Member
    from Pasadena

    Interesting? Now my weekends ruined; because this will needle at me until I get back in the office on Monday. I do recall reading that somewhere too.

    The logical reason would be that there was no advantage to Rufi for "sand bagging" because that car was relagated to run in Class D/ Unlimited/ Streamliner.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  19. found this randomly on the internet and i think i have, my new favourite picture!

    [​IMG]
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  20. erlomd
    Joined: Apr 26, 2008
    Posts: 1,212

    erlomd
    Member

    very cool indeed! you can just hear the smack talk!
     
  21. 1947

    Check the headlight stand spacers
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  22. Very cool for sure!
     
  23. My mate Marco's not long finished his roadster, so we took it out for a spin to the pub tonight, you know all is right in the world, bombing along in an A with the stars as your headlining!

    [​IMG]
     
  24. walls
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 635

    walls
    Member

    That's a beauty.
     
  25. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,673

    296ardun
    Member

    One house from Orange Grove on California Blvd, torn down in '67

    Of course street racing is illegal so I never did it (but if I did, it would have been on the road next to the Rose Bowl, beat a few cars there and fled before the cops got there
     
  26. Kiwifruit
    Joined: Apr 21, 2006
    Posts: 199

    Kiwifruit
    Member

    awesome looking roadster you posted Vonmerkin, is there a build thread here for it?
     
  27. 46stude
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,718

    46stude
    Member

    Holy Mary Mother of God- that is perfect. Absolutely, simply perfect.
     
  28. no build thread he's not one for sitting on a computer just gets on and does it, unlike me haha! its stock a frame with A rear end, 4 inch drop beam on the front, 40 ford brakes alround, B engine and 17" wires

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,694

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    So there's no Z? It's amazing it came out that level with the four-inch drop axle.

    Great looking car!
     
  30. 46stude
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,718

    46stude
    Member

    Tell him we need pics without modern tents in the background!
     

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