Ok so whats the maximum hourly rate you could afford to pay ? My weekly metal work blog www.themetalsurgeon.com
If a guy has a good skill set and can pick up other things I would pay that guy 20 a hour any more and the shop rate has to go up and we are not to that point yet. finding someone that can line up thier work day and work efficiently and not hang himself for two days just trying to catch up is very hard to find. we have a target number of hours that we want to bill from each man every day and if they bill over thier target hours for the week thats where a bonus comes from. If a guy met his hours by thursday and wanted friday off he could have full run of the shop to work on his own stuff if they want to. I understand that stuff happens and I do not bark at guys if they are short on thier hours as long as the work has been done to shop standards but the guy that gets 20 bucks a hour needs to be very close to his hour target every week. But if that guy can not bill enough for us to break even on his wages he is over paid. For me to meet my target hours I have to work 6 days a week as alot of my time is taken up by customers and other things but a employee should only loose some time talking to a customer about progress on thier project and it is a set up appointment so a guy can find a good stopping point. We have our target hours and we have break even hours if a guys is only breaking even on his wages its not that he is a bad employee its just a case where I need to find other things for them to do so that they can be more productive. This is the reason that the listing says wages are performance based, after reading some other posings on here alot of guys think that a shop is just raking in money off of the employees work yes the whole idea is to make some money but what alot of guys do not think about a employer is investing in thier staff a couple of years ago I had a guy that was always on his hours so he went with me to a week long sheet metal shaping seminar and was paid for that week. I am not doing this to become filthy rich I enjoy what I do and want to make a cofortable living and every employee has the same right. Pat
Trial period seems fine, standard thing over here is a months trial period. at which point the month is reviewed by both parties, and salary/contract agreed. The thing about a custom shop is that alot of skills are needed, most body repair places just don't use those type of skills anymore. Good luck with your search, wish Nebraska was a bit closer.
in florida, maybe not. In Nebraska it could be a very good rate. Its all about location. $20ph in Seattle is not the same as $20ph in say Mobile.
Not saying 20 is good or bad...but I think what this guy is saying is if his employee can produce hours that he can bill hour for hour then the price could be more.
Bingo! Cost of living here is not much and starting wage here for a welder is 15 bucks a hour, as a younger man I walked into prototype welding with certs and knowledge of blue prints for 10 bucks a hour. Friend of my is running a punch press for 9.50 now out here its a different world as far as money a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom full basement with 20x25 garage sells for around 55k(my house). What would a entry level guy in fl or ca get for a wage? I think what a lot of guys that don't understand is that we just do not have the population out here as long as we have been running a help want ad we have had 15 guys interested. Despite the economy we are now at the point that we need to expand we are turning work away some guys have put their names on the waiting list other guys will not wait, we have stayed small as long as I feel that we can. Looking at a new building that would allow us to have some of those impulsive small jobs, it would be ideal to have 3 guys plus my self in the new building but if I can not find 2 more guys I will buy a press and start filling the new shop with more metal equipment and move more to custom metal and small manufacturing. Here is one that I hope to take to the lead sled spectacular in salina ks I need to be more active here on the hamb but alot of my sheet metal stuff is not hamb friendly but hopefully by the time I get the new front fenders and hood shaped it will be. Pat
$ 20. per hour is not going to get you the (quality do it all craftsman) you expect.A good body tech doing crash repair makes more than double that without having to do tedious restoration and fab work along with paint work. I don't think you will ever find the kind of craftsman you expect for $ 20. You need to face reality and rethink how you are going to do this.Very few guys out there can do total quality restoration work.Look around you, the big rod,custom and restoration shops all hire workers that specialize in specific work. Good luck.
I'm from Australia so perhaps I'm missing something, but I was under the impression maintaining and creating new jobs in the current USA economy was a major achievement. So in my Pat deserves some kudos! Good on ya for offering the job to Hambers. I wish you all the best, and I hop
Nothing wrong with a trial period. Even I did one at my current employer, and I owned and ran my own shop, for an entire decade.
Does the Hastings police or county have a work release program? They have their own work uniforms usually and this should cut down on your overhead. Your thread seems more like an advertisement for your shop instead of a help wanted advertisement. This is a common form of advertising in some professional magazines. The companies want perspective customers to think they have great employes with outstanding qualities. They usually do not.
Thanks for the comments guys was starting to get a little depressed haha. I just don't understand guys saying that 20 bucks isn't enough to get anyone worth having. My overhead is not that high but say I have 3 guys at 25 bucks a hour thats 600 bucks a day in wages witch means 12000 bucks a month in wages! Thats more than my overhead less parts and materials for a month!!!! So my shop rate has to go up to cover wages? So if I double my rate (75now) just to pay wages a muscle car fender bottom 4 hour job at 150 a hour is 600bucks plus materials! Thats more than a new fender, I appreciate everyone's perspective here but look at it from mine I can not charge 600 bucks for a fender bottom I just can't I would price myself out of a job. Pat
I am not trying to make this into a advertisement I am just trying to show what we do so guys have a little bit of a idea what kind of work they would be doing but maybe listing the show I would like to take stuff to was a brain fart sorry. As this has turned into a discussion within a help wanted ad I was hoping to learn something from it sorry if I have offended anyone. Pat
Over here in OZ our charge out rate per man per day is about 250% his hourly wage. Eg a man on $20 p/h is billed out at $50 per hour. This is obviously not set in stone and the % changes depending on the circumstance. The extra over his hourly rate takes into account the costs to have them employed ( annual leave, sick days, insurance etc) and overheads and profit. I wish I could charge a $20 ph employee out at $75ph. Then again someone with the skills you are looking for would be receiving over $30 ph hour in sydney
Rate will depend a lot on the cost-of-living where it is being offered. The hourly rate of $20 may very well be in-line with the costs where it is being offered. I don't know. Where I am, in the San Francisco Bay Area, that would be only about 50-60% of what it takes to afford a basic, comfortable adult living (maybe even a mortgage, shared with a spouse), as a career, where you can have a decent place to live, and raise a family, as long as the spouse has medical benefits for the whole family. This country varies greatly. I know valet parking attendants that make $19/hr. before tiips, full-time, no benefits.
Not sure you're looking at this right. If you're paying each guy $25 an hour, and your shop rate is $75 an hour, then the following applies: They work 8 hours each, costs you $600. Your shop should be billing that same 24(8 x 3) hours at $75 per hour which equals $1800.00 We bill at around $60 per hour. We expect each employee to be able to log 8-10 productive hours per day. Each employee. Not all of them as a group. Our employees may all be working on the same job, but their hours are cumulative towards the job. In a full day, we log 170 hrs which hopefully, are all billable towards the job/jobs. There is always some overhead in terms of "shop" labor, but we work to keep that at a minimum.
I have a 20% rule that never fails. Your perfect projection will be off by 20% due to what I call down time. An employee gets sick, a tool or machine breaks, a supplier screws you by sending $1800.00 worth of the wrong shit and it stops the job. Power failure, traffic accidents, in essense, life. If you have 5 billable guys on the floor and 100% hrs out of 4 of em at any given week, you're most likely still inside your profit margin. 5 guys all year in your shop with the 20% rule is still over 1/2 a mil a year. Unless your "shop poor" in payments or something it should net a happy place to work with a decent future. Your cost of living deal makes sense too. I see opportunity for a hustlin craftsman. Good luck. And yer website needs pictures!!!
I wish I knew more how too do this kind of work and you where in CO I would love to try out for it...... Good luck on getting some one.....
you have to look at the area, a small town with low population, the economy, the residents are not going to pay a fortune to have something repaired at a high rate...this has all been about pay rate for the employee, what about the amount of money the average person in the community makes and is looking to spend to have repairs done. they are not going to spend a fortune when they have the bills to pay, and food to put on the table just like we do...and its worse if there are not a lot of higher paying jobs for them either...we are assuming this is a retirement community where there is alot of people with project cars and money spend. and also not every shop has the funds as jimmy shines, austin s.s. or west coast customs, to go full boar on credentials and get top dollar for the repairs even if they have the craftsmanship to do so, its not built overnight guys. and not every tech is worth $35. bucks an hour to start just my 2cents..
I too am curious as to how serious he is. I run a one man operation here and have become well known and respected for the quality of metal finishing and shaping, paint and fabrication. I do only one car at a time and am especially known for my paintwork which is the majority of the business I receive. Knowing that I am capable of performing what has been described, and that I was thinking of a change of scenery, I PM'ed him a response a long time ago and recieved back nothing in the way of questioning or so much as a get lost. Sooooo..... No matter to me as I have decided to stay put. I wasn't looking to move because I am struggling either, far from it.
Sorry, but labor is normally the largest expense category in any business. Also, $75 is lower than shop rates around here--is that typical for your area?
Many of the better shops here are over $100, with some at $135. And yes, labor is the biggest expense, unless you are doing something wrong.
There are a couple of out of a box builders that charge over a hundred bucks a hour around here but they also have been sued several times and I really don't want to be in that racket. I don't have a problem paying a guy that can produce and Im not getting defensive here but out here I have a hard time finding people out here that can bill enough to cover thier wages and not cost the shop money. In 8 years I have only had 5 employees and only one of them was close to his target hours weekly and he was paid more than myself as his skill set filled in the holes in mine and he was with us for 5 years but with a baby on the way and being the sole sourse of income it was his job to do what was best for his family (as I could not offer insurance) and I really admire the guy for that. In the past I have paid for guys out of state travel expence and hotel and food and thier preffered wage for work trials and have them show up and think overlapped panels and 1/8th inch of filler is ok. Thats why work trial pay is now 12.50 and after a work trial is done its time to talk about wages like adults but in a small shop I need a guy that can do several things If a guy is amazing at sanding primer and thats it the work flow of the shop does not have enough for him to do. Pat
No offense to you personally. I operated my own shop for a decade, so I know what you are up against. If what you are willing and able to pay is not bringing the talent you are looking for, and your employees are not meeting their target hours, and you don't feel that you can charge more per hour, then there is something wrong with your business model. If you are paying opening-shift barista wages, or valet parking attendant wages, then you have little hope of attracting good, talented, loyal people, especially without benefits. I all too often find business operators looking at the equation upside down. They pick out a labor rate, and then try to force-fit the rest of the business to it. Figure out what you need to pay to attract good, talented and loyal people, select a reasonable profit margin, and THEN set your labor rate based on that. If you do a good job attracting those people, there should be no trouble getting people to pay that rate, because the work will be worth it. If not, cultivate a better, more affluent customer base. If that still does not work, then you've got some thinking to do. You could always go back to what you are doing now, but that, by your own admission, is not working. Figuring out how to get excellent employees to work for less money is NOT the answer. If you want highly skilled craftspeople to work for you, you have to figure out how to pay them career-class wages, and not job-class wages. It is JUST that simple.
Is there a relocation assistance? You might post some links to the town government, school system , fraternal organizations, medical facilities, assisted living homes and churches. Recreation and town functions are also important to some families. The real estate taxes and utility rates are important. What employment opportunities exist for the spouse might be important to a couple. Shopping and hunting are important to some people. how far away is Wal Mart and Mcdonalds. I have never based a relocation on these items. Mine has always been based on pay and where the company sends me.
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