For out of work and future machinists

No the problem is that for many years the manufacturing industry shipped the vast majority of "blue collar" jobs overseas which meant that schools were forced to teach and promote things in sectors that actually produced jobs. There was no point in teaching a bunch of people manufactuing trades when it looked like fewer and fewer of those jobs would be around. Now that manufacturing is slowly coming back (mostly due to lower wages) everyone blames the schools for there being a shortage in the work force.

 

Also forgot to mention that I am teaching myself to pour babbit bearings and run my Kwikway line bore machine. Not the same as programming a CNC machine, but still a step in having the knowledge to know where to indicate from and applying it. Rod

 

K13 you hit it on the head......and Zookeepers points are very good too.

Wouldn't it be nice to work for a shop owner that wasn't so concerned about himself getting rich and working for one with a different philosophy. If I was ever interviewed by a shop owner that said something like "what type of things can 'we' do around here to make 'us' more profitable, secure, innovative. I want to run this shop like no other". Id be there in a split second.

 

When you're talking about schools and other places phasing out the auto, wood and metal shops, keep in mind that a huge part of that is due to insurance and liability.

Today, if a kid hurts himself in a shop class, there's lawsuits, insurance payouts, people get fired, etc. That might be a proper response if the kid loses a finger while the teacher is in his office taking a nip from his hidden bottle of JD or something, but these days, that's the automatic response if the kid gets any injury worse than a blister.

It doesn't take very many multi-million-dollar lawsuit payouts before the schools decide that the money they were using for the metal shop would be better- and safer- spent in the computer lab or for the art classes.

Doc.

 

Leadership can only be provided through profound knowledge.
How can anyone run a business, when they don't know how
to do the work ?

And when the Desk Jockeys want to screw around,
the people actually doing the work, they are sabotaging
the companies future.

If companies won't invest in apprenticeships, training future journeymen, they have no right to complain about a skills shortage.

 

I owned a manufacturing company which I sold for enough money to retire at age 52. I had often said that the things i learned in Drafting and auto shop (high school) and the things I learned at the Air Force tech schools (aircraft mechanic) helped me more than my college education. Shortly after I retired I thought I would "give back" by sponsoring a small "scholarship award" for the best two students in, what we used to call, industrial arts at the local school. My thinking was, they give awards and encourage the kids to go to college, why not not give some encouragement to those kids that were not college bound. In due time I had an appointment with the school principal and one of the two shop teachers to talk about my awards. It soon became apparent that the principal was embarrassed that I would want to give such an award and was not enthusiastic about my idea. He would only "go along" with the idea reluctantly. The principal made an early exit from the meeting which was no surprise. After he left, the shop teacher told me that the principal had been trying to shut down the shop programs since he had arrived at the school a couple of years earlier. I told the shop teacher my opinion of the principal and the horse he rode in on and we got on with how to select the two students for the cash award. I told the shop teacher that he could use any criteria that he wanted to determine the two most deserving students in the industrial arts classes. I wrote out the two checks, left the school and never returned.

 

They act as if, you should be happy, living in their shadow.

I had a HR Director talking down to me one day, saying that
people should respect her, because she had a 4 year degree.
Big fucking deal.
Many University grads get sold this idea that they are superior.
But they live in a world, totally disconnected from those who get their hands dirty.

 

I trained as a machinist in the early '80s, graduated in the middle of a recession. The only job I could find paid about half what I was making as a lumber grader in a sawmill when i had quit to pursue my lifelong dream(of becoming a machinist) and they werent even offering apprenticeships. After a year of making peanuts, and getting DOZENS of phone calls from a buddy of mine to go back to lumber grading at $22 an hour, I made the only intelligent decision I could, and left the machinist trade once and for all. Now I am an insurance broker. It may not be much fun, hell, it might be abysmally boring, but its 100% recession-proof, and they cant ship my job to China. As far as I am concerned, fuck 'em, the manufacturing industry has made their bed, let them lay in it.

Oh yea, just to be clear, when I did my course, it included CNC training which was cutting edge at the time. We even did a course in binary notation and programmimg.

 

Things are not all lost. Here in CT the state has a technical school program which includes machine shop as well as machine repair. Theres many other trades also avaliable to the students who are interested in using their hands and brains to learn an honest trade. While its difficult to keep up with the ever changing technoligy the kids who graduate after four years of training have a good future ahead of them if they stick with it.
Ronnieroadster

 

Sadly we Americans are also partially to blame for these circumstances we find ourself in.
I have noticed for a long time that many parents drill it into their kids to get the college degree and education /education /and more education/,going to school for every year they can and being a student untill they are 40 [& living at home] still with their parents!

It is on a paralell with the old addage that being an auto mechanic is a disgracefull trade they would not wish on... -their-kids...
now we see an auto tech IS a very well rewarded trade and college grads are in the unemployment line and playing with their newly found personal devices while there waiting to see there are no jobs for them....

I think we as americans must now wake up TO THE NEW the facts of life ....
we need hands on folks of both sexes that can actually do manual labor and with SKILLS!!!

 

When I was in school the manufacutring jobs had not started to move overseas. Conventional wisdom taught by our schools followed the lines of "you don't want to end up pulling a lever in factory do you? Then stay in school". I country full of intellectuals sits on its ass and debates how to make things better but doesn't have the skills necessary to carry out the changes. They rely on the skilled labor. When there isn't any labor they outsource it. The school systems I went through treated craftsman/artists/cnc operators etc.. as the jobs you took if you weren't smart enough to go to college.

 

I own a manufacturing business in Beaumont Texas. I have been trying to hire a machinist for months, we have almost no applicants. As many have said, the schools including our local Technical College have closed their machine shop programs. We pay good money, with good benefits. Virtually every shop in the area is looking for machinist. Shops in Houston are paying signing bonuses I saw the other day. We have plenty of work, just need qualified people to get it out the door. If the US is going to build back its manufacturing base we need to start now developing the personell to make it happen.
If you are a machinist and want a job, let me know.

 

My point was that schools follow employment trends and whether they be from jobs going overseas or being replaced by automation in manufacturing or jobs coming back from overseas they tend to push students in the direction of where the greatest chance for employment lays. From the 1970's until about 4 or 5 years ago that was not in manufacturing in North America. They know what industries are looking for employees and base their curriculums accordingly.

 

Colleges yes. Highschools No. I live in the "orthopedic capital of the world" where there are no shortage well paying manufacturing jobs. Clean Medical device shops at that. The schools still push white collar first. I know, my son is witness to it in 5th grade. All I am saying is that until we stop speaking of blue collar work as substandard, we will continue to produce educated people that can't feed themselves.

 

I worked as an entry level manual Machinist here in North eastern Ct. for a few years in 2 differents shops. One of these shops tried to work with me to get me into an apprenticeship,The first thing he got told was I was getting paid too much to cut my pay ( I was also the shops only welder) next he was supposed to send me to school in Hartford 1 day a week paid. This was a small shop with only 4 or 5 guys! We have a trade school with Tool and Die and machine shop just 6 minutes from where my shop was (Ellis Tech Danielson Ct.) I could have done my classroom work there and still put in part of a day at the shop, That was not acceptable to the program and having my pay cut was unacceptable to me and my boss! I was not getting overpaid at the time and was lowest man in the shop for pay scale.I'm looking into going back to school to be a manual machinist now but at 58 don't see any company would be interested in hiring me when I'd get out. In my area I don't see many outfits even interested in somebody over 40 and I'm hearing that from a lot of people I know looking for work.

 

I say go for it. I interviewed for a manual machinist job today. the pay isn't the greatest but they are willing to take me on full time at 50 as a self taught machinist. the opportunities are there

 

I graduated from Brooklyn Technical High School in 1981. Feel free to look it up at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Technical_High_School

We had machine shops that were used at night to support the war effort in WWII as well as the biggest wind tunnel on the east coast. I took technical drawing, pattern making, machine shop, and foundry.

Last spring I visited for my 30th reunion. All the programs I mentioned are discontinued, and the equipment is being scrapped. Not sold, scrapped. The programs have been replaced with computer science and bio engineering programs.

The world has changed. For better or worse, who knows?

 

First of all I didn't read all of the posts, but ironically, me and a truck driver (older guy/experienced in life) got to talking about this subject today, during his steel delivery. It happens, that we have a sign outside our gate now, saying we are hiring. We're looking for welders and machinists. I think the weld shop super has had about 200 weld tests done in the last year, and maybe 12 got hired. So as we talked about that, it was mentioned that schools aren't teaching students the finer points of welding or machining, instead they are teaching (if at all) the aspects of how to make money as a welder or machinist. It's all fine and dandy to know the welding symbols on blueprints, but that don't do didly squat, on performance of how to hold the gun at a certain angle or using a stick overhead on stainless. Anyway, the driver, who's grandson grew up on the farm with him, went to be a commercial airline pilot, and did that for a short while until the mass layoff a couple years ago. He still had $60,000 in student loan debt. So he's driving truck for the same steel supplier, and he makes more money doing that than he did as a commercial airline pilot. Strange, I know. But the older guy mentioned to him at an early age, to "learn how to work with your hands, and you'll never have a problem finding a work." I see that statement as true. If everywhere you look, someone is telling all the young folk they need a college degree to get a decent paying job, who does that leave behind to do the actual work? I can honestly say, I've never met a person in the trades, who didn't go to college, being worse off than someone who did. Go to college, get loan debt, and the employer will tell you, " You need to first get experience." All the while, the guy who's been learning on the job from the guys who have been there and done that, who are teaching him, is getting paid doing it. And is getting the experience employers are looking for in a worker.

 

I own a machine shop. A guy walked in looking for a job. He has a college degree in music (trumpet & piano) and another degree in archeology. Needless to say he is having a hard time finding a job. I asked why he didn't study something that had better job possibilities & he said "A paycheck isn't everything".

I wonder why the USA is going broke ???

 

Here's another bonus of being a machinist: it's like a look behind the scenes at a magician's act. Learning to be a machinist is the single biggest turning point in my life. It showed me that by learning to do things one step at a time, anything is possible. By planning ahead before doing anything else, you can see where you may be tripped up. Being a machinist is a real game-changer as far as everything else is concerned in my whole life. All of a sudden I had the confidence to try new things, I learned that it can always be better with the next part and that "close" may not be close enough. There is nothing I have found yet that I cannot replicate or improve and I never want to stop learning. But it's also kind of a "filter" and separates those who have good spacial thinking and those who don't very quickly. You need to be able to think on the fly and build a part in your head, as well as have the ability to take pride in the quality of your work. Another huge benefit is that you become self-reliant. And for those of us that don't work well with others, it's nice to be able to do it your way and only your way. I don't mind taking the heat if my part fails, but I HATE it when I'm part of a team on something and someone else dropped the ball and rendered my effort worthless. I love what I do and I love being good at it, and that's the way I wish more people felt about their job, regardless of what it is.

 

I teach auto body at at tech center .We are lucky to have a school board that supports our school. We have around 400 students,around half of those are in our auto,diesel,welding and construction classes .We just attended the local world of wheels where there was over 600 tech students attending.We have good local support and an increasing vendor support.Not all trade schools are closing but ther needs to be more awearness of our importance.

 

I hate to say it but kids today dont want ther hands dirty....

 

WE have around 200 students in our auto ,welding ,andwood classes that get dirty everyday.

 

I think I'm one of the lucky ones. Just enrolled in county college this past fall in Mechanical Engineering Tech and from talking to one of my professors, we have one of the only operational machines shops that students can use in the state. I only had one semester of this class but everyone from my class and the other wish there was another machining and CNC class. Our professor is also a vintage racer and home machinist so he knows his stuff inside and out.

 

Little one's learn by example i.e. environment. Social engineering is producing a vast percentage of non-producing consumers. Don't get me started on the sex ed. warpage.

 

Hmmm, and i swear it wasnt a shortage of machinists, but a shortage of machinists that want to make $10, or atleast thats how it is at my job.....

 

They will squeeze you on your hourly rate,
then "let you" work endless overtime
to make up the difference.

 

As of a couple years ago, 80% of the machine shops in
Windsor Ontario were closed, and all their equipment sold off.

I doubt the remainder have "trouble" finding people.

 

I used to teach Science in middle school. Only a very small percentage of the kids were even interested. If I told my students that not everyone will wind up going to college, I got my ass chewed for discouraging the students. I even tried to have a "Hot Rod" class after school. That was O.K. as long as they didn't work on real cars. Unfortunately, schools are run by Psudo-Intellectuals that think all of the students will do well if we "just believe in them." That is a crock, most of these kids are lazy, uninterested and unmotivated. They don't even want to do their homework much less any manual labor.

 

This is a short list I go by when considering someone.

Good hand/eye ability
The ability to listen and retain
The ability to ask a question and want to know the answer
Good math skills, and the two most important...
The ability to want to work
And finally the ability to show up on time everyday.

Sadly this usually weeds out about 85% of the people. A skilled machinist is becoming a lost art and a thing of the past. Hope there's a fix because a lot of shops will go belly-up if things don't turn around. My shop averages $23-$25 an hour for a well trained and skilled CNC machinist and this still doesn't get people knocking down the door. For every 25 interviews we might see one good prospect.