methanol as an automotive fuel a must read

just looked at this on the web. something we all should read. this was a study done at M.I.T.a few years back. google this( methanol as an automotive fuel) Its long but informative

 

so is this about ethanol or methanol? subject says methanol, body says ethanol.

methanol


ethanol

 

is anyone else tired of reading about methanol/ethanol vs gas???
all I want to see and read is more build threads to keep me going.

 

yeah, a little, we've had 10% here for a good while and I haven't experienced the issues that people keep complaining about.

 

A "little while" here as well, as in 30 YEARS!

 

It may have something to do with how the engine is tuned?? With my set up I have no issues....

 

This all sounds like a rerun. X2 or 3.

 

'"methanol"a fart in a holly carb

 

http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0979043778

 

Brazil has used an alcohol based fuel for years. It gets less mileage, but they grow the fuel.

 

and has been stated so many times before our biggest issue is making it from corn, about the least efficient crop as far as ethanol production. Sugar cane, switch grass, and others are much much better choices.

 

And, s it turns out, we also use corn for food (and food for our food). So when they decide to push ethanol use in the US even more, we can watch our food prices rise. Good plan.

 

Actually it's feed corn that is used for ethanol production and not what humans eat. And they use the left overs from ethanol production for feed. Might want to look into that.

 

Might be feed corn, but using the feed corn to make ethanol is running up the price of that feed corn and when a farmer has to pay more for the corn to feed his cattle, hogs, and chickens. And incresed feed costs ultimately increases the price of the meat most of us like.
Ethanol doesn't give much of a problem in a vehicle driven frequently. But cars stored in the Winter, power equipment not regularly used, etc., you're gonna have a peoblem. And since the ethano attracts water, you're really in a pickle if you use it in a boat!
All my power equipment I use pure gasoline when I can find it. There's one station here, owned/operated by a small distributor, usually has 90 octane pure gasoline, selling it for approx. 10-15% above 93 octane with 10% ethanol. The 90 with ethanol added is what becomes 93, or so I'm told. The oil co. owning the station sells a hell of a lot of the pure stuff to marinas.
We also have i BP station selling 85% because they have a contact with federales to supply it for the federally owned vehicles here for post office, etc.
I'd convert to 85% in my hot rod, incluing 12.5:1 comp. ratio to take advantage of the natural high octane of ethanol, but there are so few stations around that it just ain't practical.
Dave

 

I corected post its....(methanol)

 

While I was agreeing with your concern, I added my own... substantiated by Congressional testimony on the topic--

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=9AF0D4FB-802A-23AD-4D12-920136F25450

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=FAD7910F-802A-23AD-42FE-3AFDFB914044

Senator Inhofe, "I am hopeful that the EPA, as the sole regulatory agency over renewable fuels, considers the impacts of increased corn prices on affected industries like hog and cattle producers as well as consumers...."

...Chief Economist Keith Collins outlined a scenario for the year 2010 in which 90 million acres of corn are needed to fulfill ethanol, livestock, and export demands.

Well, uh... never mind

 

holly crap...... has anyone googled the M.I.T.information as intended in the post

 

This country is totally dependent on corn for food and animal feed.It's a pesticide and fertilizer intensive crop.It's used in many foods as a sweetener,animals feed corn rather than grass have a significantly higher fat content....All this so we can pay a little less for our food.Dangerous shit to rely so much on one thing......
Take corn out of the food and out of the gasoline before we become a nation of fatties driving poor running cars.......

 

I linked that in my first reply, just click methanol.

 

If you Google 'The Bakken Formation', maybe we can forget about alcohol for fuel. If it is true that this reserve in N. Dakota, Montana and Canada has 8 times more oil (sweet crude) than Saudi Arabia, maybe we can rest easy. If only the powers to be will let us tap into it.

 

Oh we are tapping into it. You would be blown away if you saw the growth in western North dakota

 

I'll have to come back and read the whole thing later. It is a 36 year old study so I don't expect anything shocking.

 

Here is some required reading for yoose all.
http://www.tristateneighbor.com/news/regional/article_a4fa0240-50fe-11e1-a64b-001871e3ce6c.html

And this company is down the street from me.

http://www.efficientenergy.org/First-American-Waste-Wood-Cellulosic-Ethanol-Plant-in-Production

 

Is there gonna be a test Trent?

 

Ok. check this out ...gasoline - btu energy per lb=18.400...methanol -btu energy per lb=9.500....what's that mean you ask ...it takes two gallons of methanol to produce the same energy as 1 gallon of gasoline. Now why would we want to switch to e85 that is 85% methanol and 15% gasoline....even if the price was cut in half its no bargin

 

Adapt, or die.

 

If yer want to further research methane and corn,there is plenty or both In the toilet of the bar I frequent after I been drinking jagger.

 

Yes, there is!Q

 

You may want to regroup and stop confusing methanol and ethanol.


Fuel BTU/Gal
Gasoline (base) 114,000
Gasoline (conventional, summer) 114,500
Gasoline (conventional, winter) 112,500
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ethanol) 111,836
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ETBE) 111,811
Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, MTBE) 111,745
Gasoline (10% MBTE) 112,000
Gasoline (regular unleaded) 114,100
Methanol fuel (M100) 56,800
Ethanol fuel (E100) 76,100
Ethanol (E85) 81,800

 

Energy density is really only relevant because fuels are sold by volume, and then it's complicated by differences in engine tune in optimizing an engine for this or that fuel. Once one gets into home-brewing it really doesn't make any difference beyond a propensity to choose slightly bigger fuel tanks.

As for efficiency as such, and the EROEI debate, it is quite moot. I call it "geek efficiency", that is to say efficiency in the abstract as opposed to anything that bears on practicality. If efficiency is dictated by patterns of consumption it merely indicates that there are serious systemic dysfunctions. Given systemic sustainability it would be the other way around: patterns of consumption would be dictated by available efficiencies.